mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 1, 2022 2:29:01 GMT
Hunter-gatherers living in tropical regions tend to be skinny that I largely agree, but those from polar or subpolar regions aren't skinny at all. The Tungusic peoples, the Mongols, the Inuits, and certain North American natives are quite stocky and strong and it would be lying to say that they're all skinny. Neither their limbs nor their torso are skinny. You and throway2 need more reality check. Shorter-limbed, stocky, and fast-twitch populations tend to be good at weightlifting. In the Tokyo 2020 Olympics, Kazakhstan had two medalists in weightlifting. One was Hui/Dungan but atypically southern-looking. (Zulfiya Chinshanlo). The other (Igor Son) has a Korean surname. Both bronze medals, one in each gender. Why can't actual ethnic Kazakhs be competitive in this event? The reason is obvious Meanwhile, southern and (one) central Chinese men took 4/7 gold medals in weighlifting. Indonesians (ethnic Indonesians) took 2 medals (one silver, one bronze) in mens and 1 medal (bronze) in womens weightlifting. A Filipino women got a gold medal, as did a Taiwan Amis. So much for the stocky, strong tungids So if South Chinese are all stocky, then tell me why they're quite good at diving? The slimmer a diver is the better his or her performance will be. |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 1, 2022 2:34:38 GMT
Nope, only those from tropical regions are skinny, whereas those living in or near the polar regions like the Tungusic peoples, the Inuits, and certain North American natives can be quite stocky and strongly-built. In fact I think being skinny or stocky has more to do with the environment they're living in rather than their lifestyle. So in your opinion, only those with body builds similar to Boke/Sumo/Ssireum wrestlers qualify as rice farmers? I don't know what you're smoking, but that couldn't be further from the truth, you need a reality check. Have you ever seen people transplanting rice seedlings in real life or on TV? It doesn't require much strength so being stocky is of no use at all, however it does require being focused, being dexterous, and standing or squatting for long hours under the sun, and I think skinny people who are better adapted for tropical conditions actually prevail in such circumstances. In fact contrary to what you're claiming, agriculture probably made people skinnier, weaker, and more prone to diseases instead of stockier or stronger. Please go watch the videos I posted earlier featuring normal young Mongols and Udeges. Being stocky and muscular-limbed is even more useless for nomads and hunter-gatherers. Middle eastern, west asian, and southern European peoples are also stockier than northern Europeans, who tend very tall and skinny. You need to go watch some Mongolian Boke videos, and then come back and tell me if they're all skinny and slim. Hunter-gathers and nomads in northern latitudes have to fight animals, ride horses, and sometimes even carry or drag sheep, therefore having stockier limbs are actually advantageous. Neanderthals were a typical example of hunter-gatherers living on the frigid Northern European tundra in the last Ice Age, and they were generally a lot stockier than Homo Sapiens. If you don't believe me you can search for their skeletal reconstructions. |
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throway2
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Fengshui Professional
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Post by throway2 on Jul 1, 2022 4:23:09 GMT
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throway2
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Fengshui Professional
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Post by throway2 on Jul 1, 2022 4:28:38 GMT
You need to go watch some Mongolian Boke videos, and then come back and tell me if they're all skinny and slim. Hunter-gathers and nomads in northern latitudes have to fight animals, ride horses, and sometimes even carry or drag sheep, therefore having stockier limbs are actually advantageous. Neanderthals were a typical example of hunter-gatherers living on the frigid Northern European tundra in the last Ice Age, and they were generally a lot stockier than Homo Sapiens. If you don't believe me you can search for their skeletal reconstructions. Again, wrestlers do not represent the average Mongolian. Here are some hunter-gatherers engaged in hunting. Look at how long they have to run for. Stocky limbs are extremely disadvantageous for these activities. Additionally, animals were often carried on sleds. You would have to be an idiot to carry animals long distance by foot. Neanderthals also hunted in likely very different ways to Homo Sapiens. Not a good example to use. And kind of pointless, seeing as we can simply compare the proportions of living peoples. |
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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jul 1, 2022 5:21:07 GMT
No idea about Daic-speaking minority groups in China, I just know neither really looks Canto. They just have big round eyes and SEA-ish facial proportions. I kind of get why mnopsc1b thinks the one on the right can pass further north in China, but the size of her eyes + the shape of her eyes is too "exotic" for her to really pass as Han Chinese or even Vietnamese. Idk if it's a "Hoabinhian" phenotype but it's definitely very distinctly southern looking IMO. My internal frame of reference for "Thai" would be your first group, but they also resemble some individuals you've PMed me from your second group way more than the Viets I've met IRL. Neither really looks Viet to me, although the one on the left would pass a little better IMO. The one on the right has a relatively narrow nose + mouth + jaw area, which is what makes her superficially "Chinese passing". The shape of her nostrils + lower nose is actually very distinctly SEA looking, and the shape of her lips is very Mainland SEA looking to me. She has a "Thai plastic surgery-oid look" to me. You think the girl on the right have big round eyes? I don't think its "Hoabinhian" phenotype because that would resemble Onge/Jarawa aka Negrito influence more. "Austroasiatic" influence is probably more accurate to describe the size and shape of her eyes. I see. Well the Phu Thai as well many Northern Thai and Lao of Laos/Northern Isaan (referring to the individuals I PM you) seem to substantial Austroasiatic admixture compared to Kinh/Viets based on G25 analyses I run on them despite the latter speaking an Austroasiatic language. That could be why they look different from actual Viets you encountered. I will post some of the models I run on them later. I understand what you mean with the "Thai plastic surgery-oid look". Off topic do you know any Vietnamese Anthroforum users who we can invite to this forum? I want to also see their opinions regarding Tai-Kradai including Northern Thais and Lao phenotypes. How about this girl? She is from Phayao in Northern Thailand which means predominantly Dai/Tai-Kradai genes. Two of the Northern Thai gedmatch samples come from this province: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phayao_provinceCan she pass in Vietnam or Southern China? mnopsc1b i.imgur.com/WGqEKiS.jpgi.imgur.com/UKTluFn.jpgi.imgur.com/gzxMFpf.jpgi.imgur.com/w3poFyI.jpg (can the guy handling her the money in the last two pics pass as Viet or Southern Chinese?) i.imgur.com/Mg5xkNN.jpgTo my knowledge redwine already has an account here and SailorNeptune disappeared from the pop anthropology scene sometime before Anthroscape got shut down. I think she can pass as Viet, Lingnan Han probably isn't too out of the question either. But I would not guess her as either ethnicity as my first choice if you asked me to guess her ancestry. Eyes are too round and somehow shaped differently from what rounder eyed Viets have. Her chin shape reminds me of one of the "ugly" Thai models/actresses Alexey12 from Anthroscape used to post a lot. Your young woman from Phayao is quite striking though. She reminds me a bit of SoCal-based dancer Lucia Liu: www.imdb.com/name/nm7860872/ The man in the glasses can pass as pan-Southern Han fairly well IMO. He can also pass as a more southern-shifted Korean. |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 1, 2022 5:30:28 GMT
You need to go watch some Mongolian Boke videos, and then come back and tell me if they're all skinny and slim. Hunter-gathers and nomads in northern latitudes have to fight animals, ride horses, and sometimes even carry or drag sheep, therefore having stockier limbs are actually advantageous. Neanderthals were a typical example of hunter-gatherers living on the frigid Northern European tundra in the last Ice Age, and they were generally a lot stockier than Homo Sapiens. If you don't believe me you can search for their skeletal reconstructions. Again, wrestlers do not represent the average Mongolian. Here are some hunter-gatherers engaged in hunting. Look at how long they have to run for. Stocky limbs are extremely disadvantageous for these activities. Additionally, animals were often carried on sleds. You would have to be an idiot to carry animals long distance by foot. Neanderthals also hunted in likely very different ways to Homo Sapiens. Not a good example to use. And kind of pointless, seeing as we can simply compare the proportions of living peoples. What's ur point? A few weight lifters cannot represent average Southern Chinese and SE Asians either. And also tropical hunter-gatherers like the Khoisan cannot represent polar/subpolar ones like Inuits and Tungusic peoples. Neanderthals were not Homo Sapiens but they were nonetheless a human species, hence their body proportions are representative of cold-adapted peoples. |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 1, 2022 5:37:19 GMT
Her body proportions are quite average for Southern Chinese, I wouldn't consider her to be stocky at all. Divers cannot be too stocky or big-framed or else the splash would be too big which causes them to lose points. If that's your definition of muscular or stocky then I can pass for Shaquille O'Neal. |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 1, 2022 5:53:18 GMT
You think the girl on the right have big round eyes? I don't think its "Hoabinhian" phenotype because that would resemble Onge/Jarawa aka Negrito influence more. "Austroasiatic" influence is probably more accurate to describe the size and shape of her eyes. I see. Well the Phu Thai as well many Northern Thai and Lao of Laos/Northern Isaan (referring to the individuals I PM you) seem to substantial Austroasiatic admixture compared to Kinh/Viets based on G25 analyses I run on them despite the latter speaking an Austroasiatic language. That could be why they look different from actual Viets you encountered. I will post some of the models I run on them later. I understand what you mean with the "Thai plastic surgery-oid look". Off topic do you know any Vietnamese Anthroforum users who we can invite to this forum? I want to also see their opinions regarding Tai-Kradai including Northern Thais and Lao phenotypes. How about this girl? She is from Phayao in Northern Thailand which means predominantly Dai/Tai-Kradai genes. Two of the Northern Thai gedmatch samples come from this province: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phayao_provinceCan she pass in Vietnam or Southern China? mnopsc1b i.imgur.com/WGqEKiS.jpgi.imgur.com/UKTluFn.jpgi.imgur.com/gzxMFpf.jpgi.imgur.com/w3poFyI.jpg (can the guy handling her the money in the last two pics pass as Viet or Southern Chinese?) i.imgur.com/Mg5xkNN.jpgTo my knowledge redwine already has an account here and SailorNeptune disappeared from the pop anthropology scene sometime before Anthroscape got shut down. I think she can pass as Viet, Lingnan Han probably isn't too out of the question either. But I would not guess her as either ethnicity as my first choice if you asked me to guess her ancestry. Eyes are too round and somehow shaped differently from what rounder eyed Viets have. Her chin shape reminds me of one of the "ugly" Thai models/actresses Alexey12 from Anthroscape used to post a lot. Your young woman from Phayao is quite striking though. She reminds me a bit of SoCal-based dancer Lucia Liu: www.imdb.com/name/nm7860872/The man in the glasses can pass as pan-Southern Han fairly well IMO. He can also pass as a more southern-shifted Korean. I think the Phu Thai girl on the right doesn't really have round eyes, but rather it's a combination of her facial features that make her look Thai not just her eyes. But still I wouldn't so quick to dismiss her as incapable of passing in China, I think she can definitely pass in Yunnan and also in neighboring Far South provinces as well, might be able to pass as a somewhat atypical Sichuanese/Chongqingese even. The Phayao girl and Lucia Liu are clearly different in terms of eyes and facial features, I wouldn't consider them to be very similar TBH. The Phayao girl is clearly Thai-looking (even more so than the Phu Thai girl on the right), and in China I can only see her passing in Yunnan and Guangxi with certainty and maybe able to pass in neighboring Guangdong, Hainan, Guizhou, and Hunan. But Lucia Liu is clearly Chinese and can pass in most provinces of Central/Southern China, maybe in some Northern Chinese provinces even. The man in glasses has a pan-Southern Chinese look, but doesn't really look Korean imho. |
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throway2
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Post by throway2 on Jul 1, 2022 6:29:11 GMT
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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jul 1, 2022 7:20:45 GMT
To my knowledge redwine already has an account here and SailorNeptune disappeared from the pop anthropology scene sometime before Anthroscape got shut down. I think she can pass as Viet, Lingnan Han probably isn't too out of the question either. But I would not guess her as either ethnicity as my first choice if you asked me to guess her ancestry. Eyes are too round and somehow shaped differently from what rounder eyed Viets have. Her chin shape reminds me of one of the "ugly" Thai models/actresses Alexey12 from Anthroscape used to post a lot. Your young woman from Phayao is quite striking though. She reminds me a bit of SoCal-based dancer Lucia Liu: www.imdb.com/name/nm7860872/The man in the glasses can pass as pan-Southern Han fairly well IMO. He can also pass as a more southern-shifted Korean. I think the Phu Thai girl on the right doesn't really have round eyes, but rather it's a combination of her facial features that make her look Thai not just her eyes. But still I wouldn't so quick to dismiss her as incapable of passing in China, I think she can definitely pass in Yunnan and also in neighboring Far South provinces as well, might be able to pass as a somewhat atypical Sichuanese/Chongqingese even. The Phayao girl and Lucia Liu are clearly different in terms of eyes and facial features, I wouldn't consider them to be very similar TBH. The Phayao girl is clearly Thai-looking (even more so than the Phu Thai girl on the right), and in China I can only see her passing in Yunnan and Guangxi with certainty and maybe able to pass in neighboring Guangdong, Hainan, Guizhou, and Hunan. But Lucia Liu is clearly Chinese and can pass in most provinces of Central/Southern China, maybe in some Northern Chinese provinces even. The man in glasses has a pan-Southern Chinese look, but doesn't really look Korean imho. Nara agrees with me that glasses man in Kheshigten's photo passes as Korean well. Lucia Liu was apparently born in Tianjin but she looks pan-Southern Chinese IMO. This is a photo of some police officers in Seoul she sent me: |
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uisashi
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Tea Botany Expert
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Post by uisashi on Jul 1, 2022 9:26:37 GMT
What people don't seem to realize is that populations don't necessarily follow a cline. For example, just because Shandong has bigger calves/thicker arms with more sloped foreheads than say Guangdong, it doesn't mean that such traits will increase as you go north. As stated, Mongols are genetically skinnier than Northern Han with longer thinner limbs, rounder foreheads and lower twitch muscles. Based on Mongolia street walk videos, photographs of Mongol HS graduates measurement data and my personal experience, I think bulk Mongols are actually rather skinny compared to most Han people, especially those along the east coast.
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 1, 2022 14:47:51 GMT
Depending on the angle taken, one can get very different impressions. This is a much better front photo of He Zi, we can see that her calves or lower legs are actually quite thin, and definitely aren't more muscular than the Mongolian wrestler you showed.   |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 1, 2022 14:54:51 GMT
What people don't seem to realize is that populations don't necessarily follow a cline. For example, just because Shandong has bigger calves/thicker arms with more sloped foreheads than say Guangdong, it doesn't mean that such traits will increase as you go north. As stated, Mongols are genetically skinnier than Northern Han with longer thinner limbs, rounder foreheads and lower twitch muscles. Based on Mongolia street walk videos, photographs of Mongol HS graduates measurement data and my personal experience, I think bulk Mongols are actually rather skinny compared to most Han people, especially those along the east coast. While average Mongols might not be as stocky as some Northern Han along the North China coast (again this could be due to non-genetic factors like nutrition, Mongolia isn't a very developed country), they're still a lot stockier than Far South Chinese and Southwest Chinese from what I can tell. |
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uisashi
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Tea Botany Expert
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Post by uisashi on Jul 1, 2022 14:57:15 GMT
Is it even possible for East Asian girls to have limbs as skinny/long as this Mongol girl? Some Mongols seem to have extreme lowfat bodies, which is a feature shared by NW Han and Tibetans. imgur.com/a/Uxr8AEb |
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throway2
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Post by throway2 on Jul 1, 2022 15:00:03 GMT
Depending on the angle taken, one can get very different impressions. This is a much better front photo of He Zi, we can see that her calves or lower legs are actually quite thin, and definitely aren't more muscular than the Mongolian wrestler you showed. He Zi's muscles are very "rounded" compared to the Mongol girl, who despite being muscular (for obvious reasons) still doesn't show as much limb muscle protrusion as He Zi |
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