uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Jul 2, 2022 14:18:36 GMT
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throway2
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Post by throway2 on Jul 4, 2022 0:15:29 GMT
My impression is that they do not pass in neighboring EA/SEA countries, and also not in places like Central Asia (from online discussions with people from these places).
Mainstream pheno discussions seem to almost ignore Tibeto-Burmans altogether, which is probably a result of unfamiliarity.
Sometimes you get the feeling that people think there should be a cline between Koreans or even Mongols to SEA, which encompasses Chinese people. But many "sinid" types look a lot closer to Tibeto-Burmans, which makes sense from an ethnolinguistic standpoint.
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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jul 4, 2022 5:52:48 GMT
My impression is that they do not pass in neighboring EA/SEA countries, and also not in places like Central Asia (from online discussions with people from these places). Mainstream pheno discussions seem to almost ignore Tibeto-Burmans altogether, which is probably a result of unfamiliarity. Sometimes you get the feeling that people think there should be a cline between Koreans or even Mongols to SEA, which encompasses Chinese people. But many "sinid" types look a lot closer to Tibeto-Burmans, which makes sense from an ethnolinguistic standpoint. Genetically Northern Han are somewhere in between Koreans and Naxi, while Southern Han are basically Northern Han minus the Central Asian admixture and shifted towards Daic groups to varying extents. In terms of phenotype yeah Northern Han and inland Southern Han overlap quite a bit with non-Sinitic Tibeto-Burmans in ways that non-Han groups don’t. |
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throway2
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Post by throway2 on Jul 5, 2022 1:45:24 GMT
In terms of phenotype yeah Northern Han and inland Southern Han overlap quite a bit with non-Sinitic Tibeto-Burmans in ways that non-Han groups don’t. I feel like sometimes Fujianese/surrounding areas might be the least "Tibeto-Burman" looking parts of China in that their "southern" types look very Austronesian, and instead of having a lot of "nordsinid" types they sometimes have "northern" looking types that end up a bit similar to some "satsumas" and "coshus" |
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 5, 2022 13:05:53 GMT
In terms of phenotype yeah Northern Han and inland Southern Han overlap quite a bit with non-Sinitic Tibeto-Burmans in ways that non-Han groups don’t. I feel like sometimes Fujianese/surrounding areas might be the least "Tibeto-Burman" looking parts of China in that their "southern" types look very Austronesian, and instead of having a lot of "nordsinid" types they sometimes have "northern" looking types that end up a bit similar to some "satsumas" and "coshus" I think Western Guangdong and Guangxi are the least "Tibeto-Burman" and the most SE Asian like in all of China. Fujianese have higher Northern Han than Cantonese, and Northern Han and Tibeto-Burman are quite closely related. |
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Jul 5, 2022 18:26:21 GMT
I feel like sometimes Fujianese/surrounding areas might be the least "Tibeto-Burman" looking parts of China in that their "southern" types look very Austronesian, and instead of having a lot of "nordsinid" types they sometimes have "northern" looking types that end up a bit similar to some "satsumas" and "coshus" I think Western Guangdong and Guangxi are the least "Tibeto-Burman" and the most SE Asian like in all of China. Fujianese have higher Northern Han than Cantonese, and Northern Han and Tibeto-Burman are quite closely related. How about Hainan? Are the Hainanese between Western Guangdong, Guangxi and Fujian in terms of having Northern Han? |
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 5, 2022 23:08:36 GMT
I think Western Guangdong and Guangxi are the least "Tibeto-Burman" and the most SE Asian like in all of China. Fujianese have higher Northern Han than Cantonese, and Northern Han and Tibeto-Burman are quite closely related. How about Hainan? Are the Hainanese between Western Guangdong, Guangxi and Fujian in terms of having Northern Han? From the autosomal PCA charts that I've seen, Hainanese are in between Fujianese and Cantonese, that is to say more southern-shifted than Fujianese but more northern-shifted than Cantonese. |
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Jul 6, 2022 8:23:33 GMT
How about Hainan? Are the Hainanese between Western Guangdong, Guangxi and Fujian in terms of having Northern Han? From the autosomal PCA charts that I've seen, Hainanese are in between Fujianese and Cantonese, that is to say more southern-shifted than Fujianese but more northern-shifted than Cantonese. That's interesting. Hainan is more southern in terms of latitude than Western Guangdong, Guangxi but is genetically more northern-shifted than them. Its probably has to do with Hainanese speaking Min languages which points out to thier origins from Fujian? Phenotypically, do Hainanese also look more northern-shifted than Cantonese? |
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uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Jul 6, 2022 8:37:16 GMT
Hainanese people are more Fujian looking as a whole, and their cheekbone projection is reduced compare to Western Guangdong/Guangxi, which oftentimes have this combo of wide expanding cheekbones + deep set eyes + sharp jaw.
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 6, 2022 12:55:13 GMT
Hainanese people are more Fujian looking as a whole, and their cheekbone projection is reduced compare to Western Guangdong/Guangxi, which oftentimes have this combo of wide expanding cheekbones + deep set eyes + sharp jaw. Completely false, from my observations I get the opposite feeling from yours: people from Western Guangdong and Guangxi are more gracile looking with more overt southern features such as smaller face, longer limbs, and larger eyes similar to Daic and SE Asian peoples, whereas certain Fujianese types can have wider cheekbones, sharper or more angular jaws, and stockier bodies. |
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 6, 2022 12:59:26 GMT
From the autosomal PCA charts that I've seen, Hainanese are in between Fujianese and Cantonese, that is to say more southern-shifted than Fujianese but more northern-shifted than Cantonese. That's interesting. Hainan is more southern in terms of latitude than Western Guangdong, Guangxi but is genetically more northern-shifted than them. Its probably has to do with Hainanese speaking Min languages which points out to thier origins from Fujian? Phenotypically, do Hainanese also look more northern-shifted than Cantonese? Yes, this probably has to do with Fujianese migrations to Hainan. Phenotypically it depends, some Hainanese who are heavily mixed with Hlai and Ong-Be peoples can look equally southern than people from Western Guangdong and Guangxi, but there're also some Hainanese who look more Fujianese and hence more northern-looking than Cantonese. |
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uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Jul 6, 2022 21:35:43 GMT
Guangxi people definitely have bigger cheekbones than people in Fujian on average...one of the most common phenotypes in Guangxi is the one I described. Short face, wide cheekbones with this Khmer like eye area...
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 6, 2022 22:58:34 GMT
Guangxi people definitely have bigger cheekbones than people in Fujian on average...one of the most common phenotypes in Guangxi is the one I described. Short face, wide cheekbones with this Khmer like eye area... This is definitely false. I wonder how many Guangxi people you've actually known or seen. I have at least a few dozen friends and acquaintances over there and the majority of them don't really fit your description. Most of them are rather gracile looking and slender, and have rather small faces and large eyes. They look more like Daic peoples or northern Viets rather than Khmers. Fujianese are definitely more similar to Northern or Central Chinese and are generally more robust compared to Guangxi people. Please refer to the post that I made about Guangdong and Guangxi phenotypes. Amongst the random girls that I posted, several of them are from Guangxi. Does any of them look super robust and have wide cheekbones to you? |
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uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Jul 7, 2022 1:49:29 GMT
Your girls and your friends do not represent the full range. Also, robustness is fluid not a regional feature, though Guangxi definitely has a sharper gonial angle jaw with distinct cheekbones. It doesn't apply to everyone there, but that specific look is a common one for Guangxi.
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 7, 2022 2:46:46 GMT
Your girls and your friends do not represent the full range. Also, robustness is fluid not a regional feature, though Guangxi definitely has a sharper gonial angle jaw with distinct cheekbones. It doesn't apply to everyone there, but that specific look is a common one for Guangxi. True they cannot represent the full range of phenotypes in Guangxi, but I think they can at least represent the dominant phenotypes there, whereas the type you described is definitely not that common. I wouldn't say it's completely absent, but it's definitely much rarer compared to the type that I described. |
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