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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jul 7, 2022 4:35:29 GMT
From the autosomal PCA charts that I've seen, Hainanese are in between Fujianese and Cantonese, that is to say more southern-shifted than Fujianese but more northern-shifted than Cantonese. That's interesting. Hainan is more southern in terms of latitude than Western Guangdong, Guangxi but is genetically more northern-shifted than them. Its probably has to do with Hainanese speaking Min languages which points out to thier origins from Fujian? Phenotypically, do Hainanese also look more northern-shifted than Cantonese? One of the Chinese international students I met in college was from Hainan. He was pretty SEA looking IMO, with light brown skin and sideways projecting cheekbones that Guangdong Han and Cantonese speakers generally don't have. I'd say they're more "southern" looking and more southern genetically than Guangdong as a whole, but not necessarily Cantonese. Group photo from a Hainan beauty contest. As a group I'd say they're more "exotic" looking from a "cosmopolitan Chinese" perspective than Cantonese from Guangdong.
Back to the OP topic- I don't think the men in photos uisashi posted can pass in Myanmar or any of the South Himalayan countries. They're too distinctly NW Han looking, although I'll admit I don't have a very clear idea of what the non-Sinitic Tibeto-Burman groups in China look like the way I kind of do with Tibetans and Bamar.
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 7, 2022 13:16:05 GMT
That's interesting. Hainan is more southern in terms of latitude than Western Guangdong, Guangxi but is genetically more northern-shifted than them. Its probably has to do with Hainanese speaking Min languages which points out to thier origins from Fujian? Phenotypically, do Hainanese also look more northern-shifted than Cantonese? One of the Chinese international students I met in college was from Hainan. He was pretty SEA looking IMO, with light brown skin and sideways projecting cheekbones that Guangdong Han and Cantonese speakers generally don't have. I'd say they're more "southern" looking and more southern genetically than Guangdong as a whole, but not necessarily Cantonese. Group photo from a Hainan beauty contest. As a group I'd say they're more "exotic" looking from a "cosmopolitan Chinese" perspective than Cantonese from Guangdong. I can accept that light brown complexion is a SE Asian or southern feature, but side-flaring cheekbones? I don't think it's particular or unique to SE Asia, and it isn't that common either. Most Far South Chinese and SE Asians give me rather gracile impressions compared to Northeast and North Asians. I highly doubt that the models you're showing are of Hainanese origin, unless you can somehow prove it. There're many people from other parts of China that live in Hainan, particularly those from the northeast. And none of them really look exotic to me. And regarding their genetic affinities, here's the PCA chart from a paper that you've posted on Anthrogenica a while ago (and I added some labels to it), showing Hainanese (HNH) to be more northern-shifted than people from Guangdong but are more southern-shifted than Fujian/Taiwan. I couldn't repost the image here for some reason so I copy and pasted the link. anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?20657-okarinaofsteiner-s-East-Eurasian-GEDmatch-megathread/page25
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throway2
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Post by throway2 on Jul 7, 2022 15:16:15 GMT
I think side-flaring cheekbones are a commonality between continental SEA and "tungid" groups.
TBH in terms of facial structure I've noticed a lot of shared features going from western Siberia -> Khalkha Mongols -> Hmong-Mien -> Austroasiatics. I was examining a ton of Khalkha Mongolian pictures and came to the conclusion that there might be greater similarities between them and Hunanese than them and eg. Shanxi. Ovor Mongol groups might be more Shanxi-shifted in comparison, and Buryats more tungusic-shifted
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 7, 2022 23:07:08 GMT
I think side-flaring cheekbones are a commonality between continental SEA and "tungid" groups. TBH in terms of facial structure I've noticed a lot of shared features going from western Siberia -> Khalkha Mongols -> Hmong-Mien -> Austroasiatics. I was examining a ton of Khalkha Mongolian pictures and came to the conclusion that there might be greater similarities between them and Hunanese than them and eg. Shanxi. Ovor Mongol groups might be more Shanxi-shifted in comparison, and Buryats more tungusic-shifted TBH I think side-flaring cheekbones can be found among most if not all Mongoloid subgroups. One of the defining features of Mongoloid is side-protruding cheekbones. Hence it's rather unfair to say that it only exists among a few Mongoloid subgroups but not others. However despite it's quite widespread, I don't think it's common anywhere. And I really don't think that Khalkha Mongols look like Hmong-Mien or Hunanese. Khalkha Mongols look noticeably more northern and more robust. And most Hunanese are of Sinitic descent not Hmong-Mien. Austroasiatic peoples like the Va or the Khmer look even more distinct and different from Mongols. Here's the Mongolian national anthem sung together by groups of Mongolians from different walks of life. I really don't think they look Southern Chinese or SE Asian. I think they look most similar to Northern Chinese and Koreans, and some of them can pass for Central Asians. By the way, I think the Mongolian anthem sounds quite pleasant and is better-sounding than the Chinese anthem, which can sound a bit aggressive to some people.
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throway2
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Post by throway2 on Jul 8, 2022 0:05:04 GMT
I think side-flaring cheekbones are a commonality between continental SEA and "tungid" groups. TBH in terms of facial structure I've noticed a lot of shared features going from western Siberia -> Khalkha Mongols -> Hmong-Mien -> Austroasiatics. I was examining a ton of Khalkha Mongolian pictures and came to the conclusion that there might be greater similarities between them and Hunanese than them and eg. Shanxi. Ovor Mongol groups might be more Shanxi-shifted in comparison, and Buryats more tungusic-shifted TBH I think side-flaring cheekbones can be found among most if not all Mongoloid subgroups. One of the defining features of Mongoloid is side-protruding cheekbones. Hence it's rather unfair to say that it only exists among a few Mongoloid subgroups but not others. However despite it's quite widespread, I don't think it's common anywhere. And I really don't think that Khalkha Mongols look like Hmong-Mien or Hunanese. Khalkha Mongols look noticeably more northern and more robust. And most Hunanese are of Sinitic descent not Hmong-Mien. Austroasiatic peoples like the Va or the Khmer look even more distinct and different from Mongols. Here's the Mongolian national anthem sung together by groups of Mongolians from different walks of life. I really don't think they look Southern Chinese or SE Asian. I think they look most similar to Northern Chinese and Koreans, and some of them can pass for Central Asians. By the way, I think the Mongolian anthem sounds quite pleasant and is better-sounding than the Chinese anthem, which can sound a bit aggressive to some people. So it's not really that Mongols actually look exactly hmong-mien or inland SEA, but more that their face shape resembles them to some extent if you look at eg. forehead, cheekbone shape, etc. Mongols don't really look that Korean either other than Buryats (Buryats and Tungusics are similar to northern-shifted Koreans)
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 8, 2022 0:21:54 GMT
TBH I think side-flaring cheekbones can be found among most if not all Mongoloid subgroups. One of the defining features of Mongoloid is side-protruding cheekbones. Hence it's rather unfair to say that it only exists among a few Mongoloid subgroups but not others. However despite it's quite widespread, I don't think it's common anywhere. And I really don't think that Khalkha Mongols look like Hmong-Mien or Hunanese. Khalkha Mongols look noticeably more northern and more robust. And most Hunanese are of Sinitic descent not Hmong-Mien. Austroasiatic peoples like the Va or the Khmer look even more distinct and different from Mongols. Here's the Mongolian national anthem sung together by groups of Mongolians from different walks of life. I really don't think they look Southern Chinese or SE Asian. I think they look most similar to Northern Chinese and Koreans, and some of them can pass for Central Asians. By the way, I think the Mongolian anthem sounds quite pleasant and is better-sounding than the Chinese anthem, which can sound a bit aggressive to some people. So it's not really that Mongols actually look exactly hmong-mien or inland SEA, but more that their face shape resembles them to some extent if you look at eg. forehead, cheekbone shape, etc. Mongols don't really look that Korean either other than Buryats (Buryats and Tungusics are similar to northern-shifted Koreans) Their face shapes don't resemble Hmong-Mien or inland SEAs at all, judging by the video I think they look quite similar to Northern Chinese, like if you put a group of those Mongolians in a Northern Chinese city or town I bet most people won't recognize they're foreigners if they don't speak. You need some reality checks and stop claiming that Mongols look SEAs, it isn't true at all.
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 8, 2022 1:23:38 GMT
And speaking of Hainan I found this video, a few foreign vloggers making a tour of the Haikou volcano area. This channel has incredibly low views, similar to most channels that cast China in a positive light.
There're 2 Chinese women in the video. The one named Mao who was wearing a yellow dress and sunglasses and who tried some delicious Hainanese lychees in the beginning, I think she could be from Central or Northern China. The other one named Michelle, who is possibly a close friend (or maybe even girlfriend) of the vlogger. I think Michelle has a pan-Southern Chinese appearance and it's somewhat hard to pinpoint her exact origin, but I wouldn't be surprised if she's from Hainan or Guangdong since her type can be found there. The fact that she's rather short and gracile increases the likelihood that she's of Far South Chinese origin.
But the most typical regional appearance goes to the local village guy appearing around 2:20. His appearance is very typical of Hainan and Western Guangdong/Guangxi and is hardly found outside of this region.
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