mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 18, 2023 1:20:54 GMT
What are the factors that could make TW Aborigines, Igorots and other Eastern Austronesians look different from TK or Western Austronesians? Btw, the Dusun, Murut are genetically much closer to TW Aborigines and Igorots than to other Western Austronesians btw due to the former being predominantly Austronesian genetically unlike others who are much more Austroasiatic-shifted. According to Gakuhari et al. 2020, TW aborigines such as Atayal and Ami have a rather strong affinity to Jomon, Igorots from northern Luzon have a weak affinity, whereas Dusun have no affinity whatsoever. Maybe that's where the difference comes from? |
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Apr 18, 2023 1:29:03 GMT
Interesting, I would have thought the two girls look too Austroasiatic admixed (not their skin color but I feel some Mon-Khmer influences from their facial features) to pass among those Tai-Kadai groups in Yunnan or Guangxi. Maybe I'm not that well versed myself in Tai-Kradai phenotypes ironically, but most of the Northern Thais (including a few Tai Lue), Laotians/Northern-Central Isaan and some Shan/Tai Yai (Tai ethnic group from Northeastern Myanmar) I have met have a vaguely generic "East Asian-ish" or Kinh/Vietnamese appearance and thus look "more northern-shifted" than these two Thai girls here. And these groups I listed are genetically predominantly to pure Tai-Kradai and thus cluster close to the Dai, Zhuang, Gelao and other Tais of Southern China. In the case of Shan, they may have some Tibeto-Burman ancestry due to their close geographical proximity to Sino-Tibetan ethnic groups such as Kachin, Lisu, Akha, etc, which might explain why many Shan can have "East Asian-ish" looks. Trust me the two Thai girls remind me a lot of my Yunnan and GX acquaintances. The left girl is 90% similar to a Tai Lue girl I know from Sipsong Panna, except the girl I know is a bit thinner, taller, and also somewhat darker than her. The girl in the middle remind me of several of my GX acquaintances. Her features are rather common in that region. IMO the guy on the right is probably the most distinctly Thai looking person out of the three, although I can see him passing in Yunnan and GX as well, especially GX. The Zhuang guy from Bilibili I posted earlier looks a bit similar to him. I'm not sure why you think that fellow Tai-Kradai peoples from YN and GX cannot pass in Thailand. If you consider those Shaanxi individuals as passable then there's no way YN and GX peoples cannot pass, if anything they should have an even higher chance of passing in Thailand. In most cases, I don't feel that Tai Lue and Zhuang necessarily look more northern-shifted than Thai, sure their skin color may be somewhat lighter (though some of them can have a darker complexion similar to native Thai as well), but most of their features are still undeniably southern. Can you post some examples of your acquaintances who resemble them? Interesting. Can you post a pic of that Tai Lue girl you referring to? Are those of GX acquaintances ethnic Zhuang or Sinicized TK "Guangxi Han"? Beg to differ, I think the two Thai girls look more distinctly Thai to me than the guy, based on my experiences living here more than half of my life. I think its his tanner complexion that makes you feel he looks more distinctly Thai. The Zhuang posted can pass only in certain parts of Thailand mainly in the Northeast and North. Huh, how did you deduce that I believe those TKs from Yunnan and Guangxi cannot pass? Of course, they can pass in TH, but restricted to certain parts only such as the North and northern and central parts of Northeast/Isaan and maybe some more isolated areas of the Central where there's less Austroasiatic influence. By Thai, am presuming you referring to Northern Thai and Northern-Central Isaan rather than the heavily to predominantly Austroasiatic Siamese/Central-Eastern Thai or Southern Thai? If the former groups, then yes, Tai Lue and Zhuang don't necessarily look more northern shifted than them. And yes, most of Tai Lue and Zhuang traits are undoubtly southern. |
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Apr 18, 2023 1:48:37 GMT
These all have a slight pseudo Japanese-ish or "Satsuma" vibe that's common in Fujianese. This is lacking in NW Han and Tibeto-burmans. Where in China can you see them passing besides Fujian? And can you see some passing in JP? |
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Apr 18, 2023 2:32:50 GMT
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Apr 19, 2023 6:01:37 GMT
According to Gakuhari et al. 2020, TW aborigines such as Atayal and Ami have a rather strong affinity to Jomon, Igorots from northern Luzon have a weak affinity, whereas Dusun have no affinity whatsoever. Maybe that's where the difference comes from? Thank you. That could explain why some TW Aborigines have a more "progressive" Jomon-like phenotypes. |
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uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Apr 19, 2023 11:41:45 GMT
Some Dalian contestant, is he structurally very Atayal?
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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Apr 19, 2023 16:15:26 GMT
Idk if he can really pass in China tbh, his nose + lower face look native Thai. He might pass in the more remote areas of Guangdong or Guangxi but if I didn’t know who he was, I’d guess him as Thai before Lingnan Han. |
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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Apr 19, 2023 16:27:02 GMT
 Hequ climate. This is colder than what I expected. Are there any research climatic influences on phenotypes? Low dew points + lower humidity = higher nose bridge, narrower nose. High dew points (heat + humidity) = wide nose with larger nose tip/base. Higher temperatures = larger eyes, smaller body frame |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 19, 2023 23:51:06 GMT
Hequ climate. This is colder than what I expected. Are there any research climatic influences on phenotypes? Low dew points + lower humidity = higher nose bridge, narrower nose. High dew points (heat + humidity) = wide nose with larger nose tip/base. Higher temperatures = larger eyes, smaller body frame I guess it's a combination of several factors not just one factor. Not all tropical populations have wide and snub noses though, Arabs and Indians both live in a tropical or subtropical environment but their noses are quite high. Similarly, some Papuans can have quite high noses as well. On the other hand, Inuits, Aleuts, and Tungusic peoples can have wide and snub noses despite living in a cold environment. For the typical Northern Mongoloid eyes, I think low temperature + snowy or sandy terrains + windy weather + some sort of sexual selection seem to be the causes of their formation. And for larger tropical eyes and smaller body frame typical of Far South Chinese and SE Asians, high temperature + high humidity + living in predominantly forested areas are likely the causal factors. |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 20, 2023 0:24:00 GMT
Trust me the two Thai girls remind me a lot of my Yunnan and GX acquaintances. The left girl is 90% similar to a Tai Lue girl I know from Sipsong Panna, except the girl I know is a bit thinner, taller, and also somewhat darker than her. The girl in the middle remind me of several of my GX acquaintances. Her features are rather common in that region. IMO the guy on the right is probably the most distinctly Thai looking person out of the three, although I can see him passing in Yunnan and GX as well, especially GX. The Zhuang guy from Bilibili I posted earlier looks a bit similar to him. I'm not sure why you think that fellow Tai-Kradai peoples from YN and GX cannot pass in Thailand. If you consider those Shaanxi individuals as passable then there's no way YN and GX peoples cannot pass, if anything they should have an even higher chance of passing in Thailand. In most cases, I don't feel that Tai Lue and Zhuang necessarily look more northern-shifted than Thai, sure their skin color may be somewhat lighter (though some of them can have a darker complexion similar to native Thai as well), but most of their features are still undeniably southern. Can you post some examples of your acquaintances who resemble them? Interesting. Can you post a pic of that Tai Lue girl you referring to? Are those of GX acquaintances ethnic Zhuang or Sinicized TK "Guangxi Han"? Beg to differ, I think the two Thai girls look more distinctly Thai to me than the guy, based on my experiences living here more than half of my life. I think its his tanner complexion that makes you feel he looks more distinctly Thai. The Zhuang posted can pass only in certain parts of Thailand mainly in the Northeast and North. Huh, how did you deduce that I believe those TKs from Yunnan and Guangxi cannot pass? Of course, they can pass in TH, but restricted to certain parts only such as the North and northern and central parts of Northeast/Isaan and maybe some more isolated areas of the Central where there's less Austroasiatic influence. By Thai, am presuming you referring to Northern Thai and Northern-Central Isaan rather than the heavily to predominantly Austroasiatic Siamese/Central-Eastern Thai or Southern Thai? If the former groups, then yes, Tai Lue and Zhuang don't necessarily look more northern shifted than them. And yes, most of Tai Lue and Zhuang traits are undoubtly southern. I don't have their permission to share their photos, but believe me those two Thai girls look very familiar to me and can definitely pass in Yunnan and Guangxi. Based on my experiences with Far South Chinese and Tai-Kradai peoples from China, I'd say that the Thai guy looks somewhat more distinct than the two Thai girls, but he can still pass in Far South China as a local without too much difficulty. I'm not that familiar with different Thai subpopulations, when I say Thai I refer to Thai in general, though I admit that GX and Yunnan TK peoples probably would have an easier time passing as Northern Thai or as Isaan Thai than as Southern Thai. |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 20, 2023 0:27:35 GMT
Some Dalian contestant, is he structurally very Atayal? Judging by the thumbnail none of them look remotely Atayal, let alone other more southern Austronesian peoples. Really you and the other Northern Chinese guy need to stop claiming Austronesian and instead you should focus more on ur relation with Koreans and Manchus. |
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uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Apr 20, 2023 0:48:48 GMT
...he's not in the thumbnail but in the part of the video stopped. And the guy in the thumbnail is southern Chinese.
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Apr 20, 2023 2:00:52 GMT
Idk if he can really pass in China tbh, his nose + lower face look native Thai. He might pass in the more remote areas of Guangdong or Guangxi but if I didn’t know who he was, I’d guess him as Thai before Lingnan Han. Concurred. I also think he looks very SEA and doubt if he can pass in China. Do you think he is partially "native" Siamese/Central Thai? Maybe he pass better in Xishuangbanna among the Dai and some groups like Wa than even the remote parts of Guangxi or Guangdong? |
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 20, 2023 2:38:01 GMT
...he's not in the thumbnail but in the part of the video stopped. And the guy in the thumbnail is southern Chinese. Does not look Atayal or Ami either but more like North Korean. And I've repeated this Nth time here and elsewhere but I'll repeat it once more for you, there's no unified "Southern Chinese" appearance, people from different parts of Southern China would look different from one another. Genetically speaking, Southern China is more diverse than Northern China. I've searched a bit and found that the guy in the thumbnail is called Chen Ming and he's from Hubei, which is in the northern part of Southern China. |
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Apr 20, 2023 5:04:27 GMT
Can you post some examples of your acquaintances who resemble them? Interesting. Can you post a pic of that Tai Lue girl you referring to? Are those of GX acquaintances ethnic Zhuang or Sinicized TK "Guangxi Han"? Beg to differ, I think the two Thai girls look more distinctly Thai to me than the guy, based on my experiences living here more than half of my life. I think its his tanner complexion that makes you feel he looks more distinctly Thai. The Zhuang posted can pass only in certain parts of Thailand mainly in the Northeast and North. Huh, how did you deduce that I believe those TKs from Yunnan and Guangxi cannot pass? Of course, they can pass in TH, but restricted to certain parts only such as the North and northern and central parts of Northeast/Isaan and maybe some more isolated areas of the Central where there's less Austroasiatic influence. By Thai, am presuming you referring to Northern Thai and Northern-Central Isaan rather than the heavily to predominantly Austroasiatic Siamese/Central-Eastern Thai or Southern Thai? If the former groups, then yes, Tai Lue and Zhuang don't necessarily look more northern shifted than them. And yes, most of Tai Lue and Zhuang traits are undoubtly southern. I don't have their permission to share their photos, but believe me those two Thai girls look very familiar to me and can definitely pass in Yunnan and Guangxi. Based on my experiences with Far South Chinese and Tai-Kradai peoples from China, I'd say that the Thai guy looks somewhat more distinct than the two Thai girls, but he can still pass in Far South China as a local without too much difficulty. I'm not that familiar with different Thai subpopulations, when I say Thai I refer to Thai in general, though I admit that GX and Yunnan TK peoples probably would have an easier time passing as Northern Thai or as Isaan Thai than as Southern Thai. Alright, that's fair enough. Can you specify what of his traits look more distinct than those two females? In Far South China, he would pass mainly among TK and some Far South Chinese? Point noted. And yes, they would pass better among those two groups than among Southern Thais. Just want to further add that, they would pass easily in Northern-Central Laos as well (Southern Laos and Southern Isaan and parts of Central Isaan are different in being much more Austroasiatic shifted). Btw can the deceased Former PM Banharn pass in Yunnan and GX as Tai-Kadai or some Austroasiatic speaking minorities such as Wa? |
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