mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 14, 2023 22:57:27 GMT
You're nothing but a troll. You said that you're Chinese American, yet the time you posted these pictures is like after midnight in America, which makes your claim dubious. And you said that you never surfed on Chinese forums, yet the claims you made here seem very familiar to me and look like certain claims made by some Sinocentrists that I've seen on Zhihu and Tieba before. How the hell would I be a "Sinocentrist" "Han Chauvinist" etc. if most of my claims revolve around the idea that a lot of these phenotypes are literally just shared between Han and non-Han peoples? From what I understand, what you're basically saying is that every Asia-Pacific phenotype, no matter Austronesian, Daic, Austroasiatic, Japano-Korean, Hoabinhian/Andamanese, and even isolated Siberian groups like Negidal/Ulchi can be found among Northern Han Chinese and Central Plains people, which implies that everyone came from the Central Plains, and to me that's one of the most quintessential forms of Sinocentrism or Han centrism. I'm not sure why some of you guys accuse Koreans of plagiarism or copying / stealing others' cultures, cause ironically you Sinocentrists or Han chauvinists are best at doing such things yourselves, to you guys everyone and everything came from ancient Sinitic. I've been surfing both outside and inside the Great Fire Wall for ages and I can assure you that I've seen more Chinese netizens and Sinocentrists claiming other people's cultures and origins than Koreans, Japanese, and Vietnamese combined. That's one of the main reasons why Chinese and specifically the Han are hated in Asia, cause you guys have no respect to the autonomy of others. Tell me why is it so hard for you to admit that each group has its own special features? Why is it so hard for you to admit that we don't all look the same? And no matter how hard you try to associate yourself with Austronesians, you simply aren't one of them. When people use the word "Austronesian", they're referring to the actual Austronesians, and not some distantly related side branch. Since your roots are from mainland China and there're no Austronesians living there, you can't be Austronesian. And I highly doubt that you're even in America. I live in North America and have a regular schedule, and to me the time you post your replies is very weird, either deep after midnight or in plain day when you're supposed to either working or schooling or doing something and not trolling on a forum. There're only 2 possible explanations, either you have nothing to do in your life or you live somewhere else, most likely China. |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 14, 2023 23:13:38 GMT
This guy isn't necessarily more "southern" than him... he just has a phenotype mixture that's more common in southern China. He also does not even pass as Wa. He looks like some type of mixture of the Negidal/Ulchi-Fujian-Japanese shared eastern hunter-gatherer type + Austronesian + maybe a hint of Austroasiatic. The guy I posted is much purer Austroasiatic If I mixed a common Japanese phenotype with a common Shaanxi phenotype I could easily achieve your guy. I never said that this Zhuang guy can pass as Wa, but he has a quintessential Lingnan phenotype and it's hard for him to pass anywhere north of Lingnan. His phenotype is definitely southern and not northern. The southerners don't just have one phenotype, and Wa people cannot represent all southerners. And the Wa aren't the purest Austroasiatic group, they're definitely mixed with Tibeto-Burmans. You yourself modeled the Wa as 39.4% Upper Yellow River LN and 60.6% Lao LN BA, which explains why some Wa have this pseudo-Tibetan look while other Wa look more distinctively southern. The SE Asian Austroasiatic speakers like Khmers, Mons, Bahnars, Htin, etc. should be better representatives of Austroasiatic since they are less admixed with Tibeto-Burmans.  The Zhuang guy I posted doesn't look Negidal/Ulchi or Japanese at all, and if you mix a Japanese person with a Northern Chinese Shaanxi person you won't get this Zhuang phenotype. Instead you'd most likely get something similar to a Korean, cause Koreans are situated in between Northern Chinese and Japanese on the PCA chart. |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 14, 2023 23:30:44 GMT
The Wa language, similar to Hmong-Mien languages, has a familiar phonology to Sinitic and Sino-Tibetan languages and could probably be pronounced easily by most Chinese speakers That's because they sang the 2nd part of the song in Mandarin, the first part when they sang in Wa I understood nothing except the word "meung" which seems to be a borrowing from Daic meaning "country" or "state". To know whether two languages are related you'd have to go much deeper than that into the realm of historical linguistics, just because two languages sound similar now doesn't mean they always sounded similar. And I have some very basic knowledge of Hmong I don't think Hmong is that easy for Mandarin speakers to pronounce, cause it has some consonant clusters and voiceless nasals as well as uvular consonants which can be a challenge for Mandarin speakers. |
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throway2
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Fengshui Professional
Posts: 206
Likes: 28
Ethnic Heritage: hmongid
Gender Identity: austronesian
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Post by throway2 on Apr 14, 2023 23:52:10 GMT
I never said that this Zhuang guy can pass as Wa, but he has a quintessential Lingnan phenotype and it's hard for him to pass anywhere north of Lingnan. His phenotype is definitely southern and not northern. The southerners don't just have one phenotype, and Wa people cannot represent all southerners. And the Wa aren't the purest Austroasiatic group, they're definitely mixed with Tibeto-Burmans. You yourself modeled the Wa as 39.4% Upper Yellow River LN and 60.6% Lao LN BA, which explains why some Wa have this pseudo-Tibetan look while other Wa look more distinctively southern. The SE Asian Austroasiatic speakers like Khmers, Mons, Bahnars, Htin, etc. should be better representatives of Austroasiatic since they are less admixed with Tibeto-Burmans. The Zhuang guy I posted doesn't look Negidal/Ulchi or Japanese at all, and if you mix a Japanese person with a Northern Chinese Shaanxi person you won't get this Zhuang phenotype. Instead you'd most likely get something similar to a Korean, cause Koreans are situated in between Northern Chinese and Japanese on the PCA chart. Target Distance CHN_Upper_Yellow_River_LN Igorot LAO_LN_BA Paniya Wa 0.01615684 39.4 0.0 60.6 0.0 Thai 0.02999577 24.6 21.0 40.2 14.2 Cambodian 0.02104753 20.4 15.4 58.6 5.6 Average 0.02240005 28.1 12.1 53.1 6.6 Cambodians are too admixed with Austronesian and Paniya who look quite different from western EAs |
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throway2
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Fengshui Professional
Posts: 206
Likes: 28
Ethnic Heritage: hmongid
Gender Identity: austronesian
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Post by throway2 on Apr 14, 2023 23:55:34 GMT
How the hell would I be a "Sinocentrist" "Han Chauvinist" etc. if most of my claims revolve around the idea that a lot of these phenotypes are literally just shared between Han and non-Han peoples? From what I understand, what you're basically saying is that every Asia-Pacific phenotype, no matter Austronesian, Daic, Austroasiatic, Japano-Korean, Hoabinhian/Andamanese, and even isolated Siberian groups like Negidal/Ulchi can be found among Northern Han Chinese and Central Plains people, which implies that everyone came from the Central Plains, and to me that's one of the most quintessential forms of Sinocentrism or Han centrism. I'm not sure why some of you guys accuse Koreans of plagiarism or copying / stealing others' cultures, cause ironically you Sinocentrists or Han chauvinists are best at doing such things yourselves, to you guys everyone and everything came from ancient Sinitic. I've been surfing both outside and inside the Great Fire Wall for ages and I can assure you that I've seen more Chinese netizens and Sinocentrists claiming other people's cultures and origins than Koreans, Japanese, and Vietnamese combined. That's one of the main reasons why Chinese and specifically the Han are hated in Asia, cause you guys have no respect to the autonomy of others. Tell me why is it so hard for you to admit that each group has its own special features? Why is it so hard for you to admit that we don't all look the same? And no matter how hard you try to associate yourself with Austronesians, you simply aren't one of them. When people use the word "Austronesian", they're referring to the actual Austronesians, and not some distantly related side branch. Since your roots are from mainland China and there're no Austronesians living there, you can't be Austronesian. And I highly doubt that you're even in America. I live in North America and have a regular schedule, and to me the time you post your replies is very weird, either deep after midnight or in plain day when you're supposed to either working or schooling or doing something and not trolling on a forum. There're only 2 possible explanations, either you have nothing to do in your life or you live somewhere else, most likely China. It takes me very little effort to write my posts... often within a minute or so. Hence I do it concurrently with work. I also sleep ~4 hours a day these days which is why I post at times in the middle of the night. The other posters (some of whom know my identity) can verify that I grew up in the United States and currently live here. I don't consider such phenos specific to "Han"... I just think most of these phenotypes are shared between different East Asians. It is far more useless and inflammatory to claim strict separation between "northern" and "southern" East Asians like you often do |
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throway2
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Fengshui Professional
Posts: 206
Likes: 28
Ethnic Heritage: hmongid
Gender Identity: austronesian
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Post by throway2 on Apr 15, 2023 0:03:03 GMT
How the hell would I be a "Sinocentrist" "Han Chauvinist" etc. if most of my claims revolve around the idea that a lot of these phenotypes are literally just shared between Han and non-Han peoples? From what I understand, what you're basically saying is that every Asia-Pacific phenotype, no matter Austronesian, Daic, Austroasiatic, Japano-Korean, Hoabinhian/Andamanese, and even isolated Siberian groups like Negidal/Ulchi can be found among Northern Han Chinese and Central Plains people, which implies that everyone came from the Central Plains, and to me that's one of the most quintessential forms of Sinocentrism or Han centrism. And some corrections- Austroasiatics (ones who are less admixed with Paniya) -> can be mostly found in northern Han (mostly Zhongyuan and NW Han) Daics -> partially found, other phenotypes not found Japanese -> partially found, other phenotypes not found Koreans -> partially found, other phenotypes not found Andamanese -> not found much at all, but some Hebei people have structural similarities to them Negidal/Ulchi -> often found, though they are more common in Hokkien speakers/Fujianese and Japanese |
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throway2
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Fengshui Professional
Posts: 206
Likes: 28
Ethnic Heritage: hmongid
Gender Identity: austronesian
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Post by throway2 on Apr 15, 2023 0:18:48 GMT
Alright here are some actual Guangxi people  Some boy from Nanning. There's no reason he doesn't pass in eastern Henan or central-north Hebei  An ethnic Zhuang politician from Hechi, Guangxi. Passes easily in Gansu.  An ethnic Zhuang politician on the left. How are his facial features that different from the native Beijinger girl on the right? Nose, eye, mouth shape all pretty much the same? |
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uisashi
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Tea Botany Expert
Posts: 118
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Post by uisashi on Apr 15, 2023 0:32:41 GMT
TBH phenotype wise, if you mix Shaanxi with Japanese, you probably won't produce a Korean looking person.
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 15, 2023 1:36:16 GMT
I never said that this Zhuang guy can pass as Wa, but he has a quintessential Lingnan phenotype and it's hard for him to pass anywhere north of Lingnan. His phenotype is definitely southern and not northern. The southerners don't just have one phenotype, and Wa people cannot represent all southerners. And the Wa aren't the purest Austroasiatic group, they're definitely mixed with Tibeto-Burmans. You yourself modeled the Wa as 39.4% Upper Yellow River LN and 60.6% Lao LN BA, which explains why some Wa have this pseudo-Tibetan look while other Wa look more distinctively southern. The SE Asian Austroasiatic speakers like Khmers, Mons, Bahnars, Htin, etc. should be better representatives of Austroasiatic since they are less admixed with Tibeto-Burmans. The Zhuang guy I posted doesn't look Negidal/Ulchi or Japanese at all, and if you mix a Japanese person with a Northern Chinese Shaanxi person you won't get this Zhuang phenotype. Instead you'd most likely get something similar to a Korean, cause Koreans are situated in between Northern Chinese and Japanese on the PCA chart. Target Distance CHN_Upper_Yellow_River_LN Igorot LAO_LN_BA Paniya Wa 0.01615684 39.4 0.0 60.6 0.0 Thai 0.02999577 24.6 21.0 40.2 14.2 Cambodian 0.02104753 20.4 15.4 58.6 5.6 Average 0.02240005 28.1 12.1 53.1 6.6 Cambodians are too admixed with Austronesian and Paniya who look quite different from western EAs Nope According to the G25 table calculated by okarina Cambodians are primarily a tripartite mixture of Dai + Mlabri + Wa (the Mlabri component being dominant), without any Igorot and the other components are quite low too. And most importantly they didn't score any CHN_UYR_LN and CHN_YR_LN, which indicates very little admixture with Tibeto-Burmans or Sinitic. And even if they're mixed with some Austronesian it matters less than mixing with Northern East Asians such as UYR_LN or YR_LN, since Coastal Southern East Asians and Inland Southern East Asians share a very close relationship.  |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 15, 2023 1:40:35 GMT
From what I understand, what you're basically saying is that every Asia-Pacific phenotype, no matter Austronesian, Daic, Austroasiatic, Japano-Korean, Hoabinhian/Andamanese, and even isolated Siberian groups like Negidal/Ulchi can be found among Northern Han Chinese and Central Plains people, which implies that everyone came from the Central Plains, and to me that's one of the most quintessential forms of Sinocentrism or Han centrism. I'm not sure why some of you guys accuse Koreans of plagiarism or copying / stealing others' cultures, cause ironically you Sinocentrists or Han chauvinists are best at doing such things yourselves, to you guys everyone and everything came from ancient Sinitic. I've been surfing both outside and inside the Great Fire Wall for ages and I can assure you that I've seen more Chinese netizens and Sinocentrists claiming other people's cultures and origins than Koreans, Japanese, and Vietnamese combined. That's one of the main reasons why Chinese and specifically the Han are hated in Asia, cause you guys have no respect to the autonomy of others. Tell me why is it so hard for you to admit that each group has its own special features? Why is it so hard for you to admit that we don't all look the same? And no matter how hard you try to associate yourself with Austronesians, you simply aren't one of them. When people use the word "Austronesian", they're referring to the actual Austronesians, and not some distantly related side branch. Since your roots are from mainland China and there're no Austronesians living there, you can't be Austronesian. And I highly doubt that you're even in America. I live in North America and have a regular schedule, and to me the time you post your replies is very weird, either deep after midnight or in plain day when you're supposed to either working or schooling or doing something and not trolling on a forum. There're only 2 possible explanations, either you have nothing to do in your life or you live somewhere else, most likely China. It takes me very little effort to write my posts... often within a minute or so. Hence I do it concurrently with work. I also sleep ~4 hours a day these days which is why I post at times in the middle of the night. The other posters (some of whom know my identity) can verify that I grew up in the United States and currently live here. I don't consider such phenos specific to "Han"... I just think most of these phenotypes are shared between different East Asians. It is far more useless and inflammatory to claim strict separation between "northern" and "southern" East Asians like you often do Lame excuses, just lame excuses. You sound and act like someone from China, your claims and opinions are very similar to those found on Zhihu and Tieba. And most of your posts are just plainly trolling without any effort or honesty whatsoever. Northern East Asians and Southern East Asians indeed look different most of the times, we shouldn't exaggerate their similarities. |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 15, 2023 1:45:16 GMT
From what I understand, what you're basically saying is that every Asia-Pacific phenotype, no matter Austronesian, Daic, Austroasiatic, Japano-Korean, Hoabinhian/Andamanese, and even isolated Siberian groups like Negidal/Ulchi can be found among Northern Han Chinese and Central Plains people, which implies that everyone came from the Central Plains, and to me that's one of the most quintessential forms of Sinocentrism or Han centrism. And some corrections- Austroasiatics (ones who are less admixed with Paniya) -> can be mostly found in northern Han (mostly Zhongyuan and NW Han) Daics -> partially found, other phenotypes not found Japanese -> partially found, other phenotypes not found Koreans -> partially found, other phenotypes not found Andamanese -> not found much at all, but some Hebei people have structural similarities to them Negidal/Ulchi -> often found, though they are more common in Hokkien speakers/Fujianese and Japanese The majority of Austroasiatics (except the ones that are heavily admixed with Tibeto-Burmans) don't look anything like Northern or Northwestern Sinitics. You must be blind to say that most Austroasiatics can pass in Northern China. Really apart from maybe Koreans and some Tujia/Hmong, I don't think other East and SE Asian groups look that similar to Northern Sinitic peoples. |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 15, 2023 1:47:25 GMT
TBH phenotype wise, if you mix Shaanxi with Japanese, you probably won't produce a Korean looking person. Whatever the offspring would look like, it certainly won't look like the Zhuang guy from Bilibili that I posted earlier. That guy cannot pass anywhere north of Lingnan, let alone Northern China and Japan. |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 15, 2023 1:51:09 GMT
Alright here are some actual Guangxi people Some boy from Nanning. There's no reason he doesn't pass in eastern Henan or central-north Hebei An ethnic Zhuang politician from Hechi, Guangxi. Passes easily in Gansu. An ethnic Zhuang politician on the left. How are his facial features that different from the native Beijinger girl on the right? Nose, eye, mouth shape all pretty much the same? As usual, showing very old politicians that are overweight or a few cherry-picked northern-looking individuals, typical Northern Sinitic tactic when slandering Far South Chinese and Southern Minorities, I've seen this too many times on Zhihu, Tieba, and other Chinese forums. And the Zhuang politician looks nothing like the Beijinger girl, their facial contour is different; the Zhuang politician obviously has a smaller and more compact face compared to the Beijing girl. And his forehead is higher or larger than the girl. Their eye region is different too, the Zhuang politician has small eyes but double eyelids whereas the Beijing girl has single eyelid. Really you must be blind to say that these two look similar. Why don't you show people some younger and better looking Zhuang and GX individuals? Like for instance the singer Wang Xiaomin  Or maybe this Zhuang girl that I posted a few months earlier in this thread, not as glamorous as Wang Xiaomin but still rather good looking and has unique regional features  Or this young Zhuang guy from Douyin  Xianzi, former Guangxi singer  Or maybe this Zhuang beauty salon owner, I've been following her on Douyin for a few years. She's native Zhuang and not mixed-raced, although people often jokingly call her mixed.  Here's her in her native Zhuang costume  And these are just the tip of the iceberg. Guangxi is a really underrated place when it comes to good looking people. I would rank GX in the top three or top four when it comes to the best places to look for beauties in China, the others being Xinjiang, Guizhou, and Yunnan. Attachments:
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throway2
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Fengshui Professional
Posts: 206
Likes: 28
Ethnic Heritage: hmongid
Gender Identity: austronesian
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Post by throway2 on Apr 15, 2023 4:06:20 GMT
Why don't you show people some younger and better looking Zhuang and GX individuals? the f did I imply that Zhuang/Guangxi people were ugly? Also these people are not regionally Tai or Austroasiatic looking... most of them just look like generic Austronesian mediaoids. I focus on real bulk phenotypes. You'll notice I have never posted a mediaoid in this thread for any group. Hyper-generic sinid + austronesian mediaoid hybrid. Found broadly from Sichuan to Taiwan to Vietnam to Japan Unironically passes in western Japan. Very broad range (as she is a generic Austronesian pheno) Now this guy finally looks more particularly Tai-Kradai/continental southern Chinese, rather than generic Austronesian. But he also passes up to maybe Hubei. Commonly found in Jiangzhe, Taiwan, Fujian. Maybe also in Japan. Generic Austronesian mediaoid again. Too filteroid to analyze pheno well. But there are sometimes people in the entire eastern seaboard of EA who also have this pseudo-caucasoid appearance. This is probably because she's just a generic Austronesian mediaoid. |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 15, 2023 4:20:51 GMT
Why don't you show people some younger and better looking Zhuang and GX individuals? the f did I imply that Zhuang/Guangxi people were ugly? Also these people are not regionally Tai or Austroasiatic looking... most of them just look like generic Austronesian mediaoids. I focus on real bulk phenotypes. You'll notice I have never posted a mediaoid in this thread for any group. LOL deliberately picking out two old politicians who have long passed their prime years plus an individual from Nanning with uncertain origins that looks kind of weird and claims that you don't imply GX/Zhuang people ugly? 此地无银三百两, a Chinese idiom to describe your type of people. And what is a "Austronesian mediaoid"? I've never heard such a bizarre term before. All of the individuals I picked look rather typical for GX and none of them looks Northern Chinese / Japanese, at least not the most typical types that people would associate with Northern Chinese and Japanese. And the beauty salon owner indeed looks that way she's neither mixed-raced nor plastic-surgery, you can search for her other videos on Douyin if you don't believe me. She's always been like that. She might have used whitening filters but I don't think those would affect her appearance too much. And really it's not that rare for native Zhuang people to have thick bushy eyebrows and large eyes with double eyelids. I don't find her phenotype out of place at all. I personally know a Thai girl that looks somewhat similar to her. |
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