Appearance/Phenotype of Guangdong and Guangxi peoples

throway2 • Fengshui Professional Posts: 206 Likes: 28 Ethnic Heritage: hmongid Gender Identity: austronesian	Post by throway2 on Apr 15, 2023 20:58:19 GMT anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?28042-Genetic-population-structure-of-the-Xiongnu-Empire-at-imperial-and-local-scales www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adf3904 Off topic but almost all of the Ulaanzuukh/Slab Grave associated samples had the very particular ydna Q1a1, which is strongly associated with ancient Sinitics (ie. Zhou era Hengbei aristocrats) I maintain a strong intuition that the original populations of Mongolia were probably phenotypically, and maybe even linguistically, closer to Sino-Tibetans than modern Mongolians, who are admixed with different waves of Tungusics, are.

Appearance/Phenotype of Guangdong and Guangxi peoples Posted Apr 15, 2023 20:58:19 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

throway2 • Fengshui Professional Posts: 206 Likes: 28 Ethnic Heritage: hmongid Gender Identity: austronesian	Post by throway2 on Apr 15, 2023 21:12:07 GMT Modeling TAK002, the highest status ancient Xiongnu sample found: Target Distance CHN_Amur_River_EN CHN_Upper_Yellow_River_LN Han_Shanxi MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave Yamnaya_UKR TAK002:TAK002.A0101 0.02086159 11.4 15.4 27.8 43.0 2.4 Mongol_Mongolia 0.02074134 22.0 0.0 17.6 45.4 15.0 Simultaneously less western Eurasian, and higher west EA (Sino-Tibetan, Slab Grave) compared to modern Khalkhs... Can we safely conclude now that Modu Chanyu probably looked like an average Hmong-Hunanese-Austroasiatic? Probably something like this shared phenotype: Some Mongolian actor Wa boy in the middle

Appearance/Phenotype of Guangdong and Guangxi peoples Posted Apr 15, 2023 21:12:07 GMT Edited by throway2 Apr 15, 2023 21:23:48 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

mnopsc1b • Laureate of Rice Agricultures Posts: 363 Likes: 67 Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese Gender Identity: Daic	Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 15, 2023 21:29:23 GMT Apr 15, 2023 20:58:19 GMT throway2 said: anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?28042-Genetic-population-structure-of-the-Xiongnu-Empire-at-imperial-and-local-scales www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adf3904 Off topic but almost all of the Ulaanzuukh/Slab Grave associated samples had the very particular ydna Q1a1, which is strongly associated with ancient Sinitics (ie. Zhou era Hengbei aristocrats) I maintain a strong intuition that the original populations of Mongolia were probably phenotypically, and maybe even linguistically, closer to Sino-Tibetans than modern Mongolians, who are admixed with different waves of Tungusics, are. Yep, I saw that thread too. So you Sinocentrists and Han chauvinists should look for your ancestries in the north and stop claiming that you guys are Austroasiatic or Austronesian.
	Anti Anti-FSC racist on here for kicks and giggles Anti Han ethnocentrist all the way, preserving the diversity of South China
Appearance/Phenotype of Guangdong and Guangxi peoples Posted Apr 15, 2023 21:29:23 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

throway2 • Fengshui Professional Posts: 206 Likes: 28 Ethnic Heritage: hmongid Gender Identity: austronesian	Post by throway2 on Apr 15, 2023 21:40:33 GMT Apr 15, 2023 21:29:23 GMT mnopsc1b said: Apr 15, 2023 20:58:19 GMT throway2 said: anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?28042-Genetic-population-structure-of-the-Xiongnu-Empire-at-imperial-and-local-scales www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adf3904 Off topic but almost all of the Ulaanzuukh/Slab Grave associated samples had the very particular ydna Q1a1, which is strongly associated with ancient Sinitics (ie. Zhou era Hengbei aristocrats) I maintain a strong intuition that the original populations of Mongolia were probably phenotypically, and maybe even linguistically, closer to Sino-Tibetans than modern Mongolians, who are admixed with different waves of Tungusics, are. Yep, I saw that thread too. So you Sinocentrists and Han chauvinists should look for your ancestries in the north and stop claiming that you guys are Austroasiatic or Austronesian. Why can't Sino-Tibetans just be roughly in between ancient Mongolia and western SEA (Austroasiatics, Hmong-Mien)?

Appearance/Phenotype of Guangdong and Guangxi peoples Posted Apr 15, 2023 21:40:33 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

mnopsc1b • Laureate of Rice Agricultures Posts: 363 Likes: 67 Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese Gender Identity: Daic	Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 15, 2023 21:44:59 GMT Apr 15, 2023 21:40:33 GMT throway2 said: Apr 15, 2023 21:29:23 GMT mnopsc1b said: Yep, I saw that thread too. So you Sinocentrists and Han chauvinists should look for your ancestries in the north and stop claiming that you guys are Austroasiatic or Austronesian. Why can't Sino-Tibetans just be roughly in between ancient Mongolia and western SEA (Austroasiatics, Hmong-Mien)? You guys were not just in between, you guys were much much more similar to Mongolia_N than to Austroasiatic and Hmong-Mien. The reason why certain Austroasiatic and Hmong-Mien (particularly Hmong-Mien) show some similarities with you guys is because of subsequent admixtures with Sinitic and Tibeto-Burman, not because of they were originally close to you guys.
	Anti Anti-FSC racist on here for kicks and giggles Anti Han ethnocentrist all the way, preserving the diversity of South China
Appearance/Phenotype of Guangdong and Guangxi peoples Posted Apr 15, 2023 21:44:59 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

throway2 • Fengshui Professional Posts: 206 Likes: 28 Ethnic Heritage: hmongid Gender Identity: austronesian	Post by throway2 on Apr 15, 2023 21:47:13 GMT Distance to: MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave 0.13239397 CHN_Upper_Yellow_River_LN 0.16710659 Han_Henan Distance to: Wa 0.13965315 Han_Henan 0.16568059 CHN_Upper_Yellow_River_LN About right in between, depending on the "Sinitic" you use.

Appearance/Phenotype of Guangdong and Guangxi peoples Posted Apr 15, 2023 21:47:13 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

mnopsc1b • Laureate of Rice Agricultures Posts: 363 Likes: 67 Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese Gender Identity: Daic	Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 15, 2023 21:49:00 GMT Apr 15, 2023 21:47:13 GMT throway2 said: Distance to: MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave 0.13239397 CHN_Upper_Yellow_River_LN 0.16710659 Han_Henan Distance to: Wa 0.13965315 Han_Henan 0.16568059 CHN_Upper_Yellow_River_LN About right in between, depending on the "Sinitic" you use. Wa cannot represent the original Austroasiatics since they have around 39% Upper YR related genome. Late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age samples from Laos should be better representatives of the original Austroasiatics than modern Wa. Similarly, modern Henan Han might not be the best representatives of the original Sinitic speakers either, since they likely have some southern admixtures.
	Anti Anti-FSC racist on here for kicks and giggles Anti Han ethnocentrist all the way, preserving the diversity of South China
Appearance/Phenotype of Guangdong and Guangxi peoples Posted Apr 15, 2023 21:49:00 GMT Edited by mnopsc1b Apr 15, 2023 21:52:59 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

shirvanshah • Tea Botany Expert Posts: 134 Likes: 29 Gender Identity: Ace	Post by shirvanshah on Apr 16, 2023 13:19:28 GMT Apr 15, 2023 21:12:07 GMT throway2 said: Modeling TAK002, the highest status ancient Xiongnu sample found: Target Distance CHN_Amur_River_EN CHN_Upper_Yellow_River_LN Han_Shanxi MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave Yamnaya_UKR TAK002:TAK002.A0101 0.02086159 11.4 15.4 27.8 43.0 2.4 Mongol_Mongolia 0.02074134 22.0 0.0 17.6 45.4 15.0 Simultaneously less western Eurasian, and higher west EA (Sino-Tibetan, Slab Grave) compared to modern Khalkhs... Can we safely conclude now that Modu Chanyu probably looked like an average Hmong-Hunanese-Austroasiatic? Probably something like this shared phenotype: Some Mongolian actor Wa boy in the middle Wow, very little Western Eurasian DNA unlike most modern day Mongols. But this Xiongnu individual also have high YR/Sinitic ancestry (Upper_YR+Han_Shanxi combined). Makes me ponder if some Mongols from Dornod, Sukhbaatar and maybe even certain locations in Dornogovi, all of which are located in eastern and southeastern parts of the Plateau, will score similar to that ancient Xiongnu individual in terms of having high Sinitic and very low Western affinity. Btw that Mongol_Mongolia average are more Western Eurasian than expected because it included Oirats e.g. Torguud, Zakhchin, Dorbet from Western Mongolia who are very Western-shifted. This sim below represented the average Mongol from Mongolia better imo (most Outer Mongolians are Khalkh) Mongol_Khalkha_Average_Sim,0.0394967,-0.36873885,0.0594341,-0.03254225,-0.0406383,-0.0244308,0.01502915,0.01572615,0.0005318,0.00896605,-0.0344425,-0.00342445,-0.0000743,-0.00015145,0.0010585,-0.00141195,-0.00303795,0.0004116,0.004657,0.01035495,-0.010937,-0.00531715,-0.0129042,-0.00103625,0.0019338 Or if you want to be more specific here are the averages for two Khalkha groups: from the historical Zasagt and Sainnoyon aimags: Mongol_Khalkh_Zasagt,0.04032585714,-0.3657358571,0.06044685714,-0.03045428571,-0.039084,-0.02119571429,0.01514171429,0.01757057143,0.002483571429,0.008825428571,-0.03540071429,-0.004175,0.001189285714,0.0004915714286,0.001454142857,-0.004337571429,-0.006258428571,0.000018,0.003770857143,0.01070157143,-0.009322857143,-0.004522285714,-0.01278271429,-0.002117142857,0.0007355714286 Mongol_Khalkh_Sainnoyon,0.03804957143,-0.3722641429,0.06206328571,-0.03751414286,-0.04031528571,-0.02390485714,0.01718942857,0.014307,-0.0005258571429,0.008695285714,-0.03433342857,-0.004710142857,-0.000191,-0.001887571429,0.0009885714286,-0.002443285714,-0.002812571429,0.00076,0.006087285714,0.01102314286,-0.01260285714,-0.006571428571,-0.01405042857,-0.0008091428571,0.0009064285714

Appearance/Phenotype of Guangdong and Guangxi peoples Posted Apr 16, 2023 13:19:28 GMT Edited by shirvanshah Apr 16, 2023 16:31:53 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

shirvanshah • Tea Botany Expert Posts: 134 Likes: 29 Gender Identity: Ace	Post by shirvanshah on Apr 16, 2023 13:28:36 GMT Apr 15, 2023 21:49:00 GMT mnopsc1b said: Apr 15, 2023 21:47:13 GMT throway2 said: Distance to: MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave 0.13239397 CHN_Upper_Yellow_River_LN 0.16710659 Han_Henan Distance to: Wa 0.13965315 Han_Henan 0.16568059 CHN_Upper_Yellow_River_LN About right in between, depending on the "Sinitic" you use. Wa cannot represent the original Austroasiatics since they have around 39% Upper YR related genome. Late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age samples from Laos should be better representatives of the original Austroasiatics than modern Wa. Similarly, modern Henan Han might not be the best representatives of the original Sinitic speakers either, since they likely have some southern admixtures. The Wa probably receive Upper YR-related admixture from mingling with the Sino-Tibetans tribes in Yunnan such as Bai, Yi, Naxi, etc I assumed? On the reverse side, the Sino-Tibetan speaking ,Akha , Hani, etc. score substantial Austroasiatic-related gene flow as well. Here is the least Sinitic-shifted Wa individual (the Wa seem to prefermodern Tibeto-Burmans such as the Qiang or Yi rather than ancient Upper YR samples) Target: Wa:65261709240049 Distance: 2.1257% / 0.02125707 66.4 Mlabri 33.6 Qiang_Danba Adding LAO_LN_BA hardly improves the fit but sliglty increase the Qiang: Target: Wa:65261709240049 Distance: 2.1114% / 0.02111363 55.0 Mlabri 35.0 Qiang_Danba 10.0 LAO_LN_BA Include the Dai in the run to see if this Wa also have some Tai-Kadai admixture. This individual seem to have some Tai-Kadai input, unlike a lot of Wa G25 samples. The additional Tai affinity in this Wa seems to lower the Qiang component imo. Target: Wa:65261709240049 Distance: 1.9031% / 0.01903059 52.8 Mlabri 28.0 Qiang_Danba 15.6 Dai 3.0 LAO_LN_BA 0.6 Tamil_Brahmin_Iyengar Karen_Sgaw (a subgroup of the Karen) from Thailand also score similar amounts of Upper_YR ancestry as the average Wa: Target: Karen_Sgaw Distance: 1.4997% / 0.01499652 51.2 Mlabri 39.6 Qiang_Danba 8.0 LAO_LN_BA 1.2 Tamil_Brahmin_Iyengar Akha and Hani, who are Sino-Tibetan but have high Austroasiatic related stuff: Target: Akha Distance: 0.7195% / 0.00719524 60.8 Qiang_Danba 14.6 Mlabri 14.2 LAO_LN_BA 10.4 Dai Target: Hani Distance: 1.0022% / 0.01002170 56.8 Qiang_Danba 24.8 Mlabri 18.0 Dai 0.4 LAO_LN_BA Indeed regarding those ancient samples from Laos. Heck, even the isolated Mlabri and Htin tribes represented the original Austroasiatic better than the Wa.

Appearance/Phenotype of Guangdong and Guangxi peoples Posted Apr 16, 2023 13:28:36 GMT Edited by shirvanshah Apr 16, 2023 14:52:37 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

throway2 • Fengshui Professional Posts: 206 Likes: 28 Ethnic Heritage: hmongid Gender Identity: austronesian	Post by throway2 on Apr 17, 2023 2:06:32 GMT Apr 16, 2023 13:28:36 GMT shirvanshah said: Indeed regarding those ancient samples from Laos. Heck, even the isolated Mlabri and Htin tribes represented the original Austroasiatic better than the Wa. For some reason I still find these Mlabri somewhat passable in places like Gansu... they somehow look more similar to certain northwestern Han than Tai-Kradai/Viets do?

Appearance/Phenotype of Guangdong and Guangxi peoples Posted Apr 17, 2023 2:06:32 GMT Edited by throway2 Apr 17, 2023 2:08:12 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

throway2 • Fengshui Professional Posts: 206 Likes: 28 Ethnic Heritage: hmongid Gender Identity: austronesian	Post by throway2 on Apr 17, 2023 2:18:15 GMT shirvanshah Do you think the rural Gansu woman stopped can pass in Thailand? For some reason when I search up pictures/videos of Mlabri people a large amount seem to have her facial structure

Appearance/Phenotype of Guangdong and Guangxi peoples Posted Apr 17, 2023 2:18:15 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

throway2 • Fengshui Professional Posts: 206 Likes: 28 Ethnic Heritage: hmongid Gender Identity: austronesian	Post by throway2 on Apr 17, 2023 2:23:13 GMT Not sure if the schoolteacher at stopped is Mlabri or not, but he looks really Tibetan/NW China passing...

Appearance/Phenotype of Guangdong and Guangxi peoples Posted Apr 17, 2023 2:23:13 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

shirvanshah • Tea Botany Expert Posts: 134 Likes: 29 Gender Identity: Ace	Post by shirvanshah on Apr 17, 2023 4:02:08 GMT Apr 17, 2023 2:06:32 GMT throway2 said: Apr 16, 2023 13:28:36 GMT shirvanshah said: Indeed regarding those ancient samples from Laos. Heck, even the isolated Mlabri and Htin tribes represented the original Austroasiatic better than the Wa. For some reason I still find these Mlabri somewhat passable in places like Gansu... they somehow look more similar to certain northwestern Han than Tai-Kradai/Viets do? Really? Can you show which of these are passable? I think only the kid on the front left with slant eyes maybe can pass.

Appearance/Phenotype of Guangdong and Guangxi peoples Posted Apr 17, 2023 4:02:08 GMT Edited by shirvanshah Apr 17, 2023 4:02:25 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

shirvanshah • Tea Botany Expert Posts: 134 Likes: 29 Gender Identity: Ace	Post by shirvanshah on Apr 17, 2023 4:04:29 GMT Apr 17, 2023 2:18:15 GMT throway2 said: shirvanshah Do you think the rural Gansu woman stopped can pass in Thailand? For some reason when I search up pictures/videos of Mlabri people a large amount seem to have her facial structure Only as an ethnic Chinese/assimilated Sino descendant in Thailand or maybe among some Tibeto-Burman speaking hill tribes in the North.

Appearance/Phenotype of Guangdong and Guangxi peoples Posted Apr 17, 2023 4:04:29 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

throway2 • Fengshui Professional Posts: 206 Likes: 28 Ethnic Heritage: hmongid Gender Identity: austronesian	Post by throway2 on Apr 17, 2023 4:10:50 GMT Apr 17, 2023 4:04:29 GMT shirvanshah said: Apr 17, 2023 2:18:15 GMT throway2 said: shirvanshah Do you think the rural Gansu woman stopped can pass in Thailand? For some reason when I search up pictures/videos of Mlabri people a large amount seem to have her facial structure Only as an ethnic Chinese/assimilated Sino descendant in Thailand or maybe among some Tibeto-Burman speaking hill tribes in the North. Hmm... she actually passes as ethnic Chinese in Thailand? My perception of Fujianese is that they tend to look rather different from her or southern TBs on average...

Appearance/Phenotype of Guangdong and Guangxi peoples Posted Apr 17, 2023 4:10:50 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top