mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Mar 10, 2023 0:47:23 GMT
The autosomal DNA clines within East Asia are relatively well known, so I will focus on phenotype impressions I've gathered from uisashi's private discussion board. Not going to describe specific traits or features TL;DR- Nara is ranking the passability of coastal Chinese subgroups as the following: coastal Northern China (including Dongbei) > Jiangnan (Yangtze Delta) > Fujian/Taiwan > Lingnan However, I'm hearing that the rare Fujianese/Taiwanese who do pass as Korean pass "very well" compared to the coastal Northern Chinese that the iGen Overseas Chinese posters are more familiar with. I'm also hearing that super-regional Jiangnan faces pass better than super-regional coastal Shandong/Dongbei faces.
Re: MNOPS- I think 1 is Inland Yangtze Basin (facial proportions look vaguely SEA-shifted) and 2 looks fairly pan-China. Agree that 3 looks Daic influenced, Guangxi or Guizhou-ish. If I had to guess specific provinces, 1 = Sichuan/Chongqing, 2 = Henan, 3 = Guangxi. Interesting. Didn't know that. Would Hunan, Jiangxi be in the same rank as Fujian/Taiwan and would Hubei be in the same rank as Jiangnan in terms of Korean passing even though they are not coastal? And would Teochew, Hakka, Hainanese belong to Fujian/Taiwan or Lingnan in terms of passing? Sorry for my ignorance, is Anhui also part of Jiangnan? Would Eric Chou be a great example of the rare Fujianese/Taiwanese that pass "very well" as Korean? Did Nara give the reason why super-regional Jiangnan faces pass better than those from super-regional coastal Shandong/Dongbei? Btw, I would have thought that southern parts of coastal Shandong would overlap more with Northern Jiangsu than Dongbei considering the geographical proximity. Regarding Korean passing, I think apart from Xinjiang and maybe some parts of Qinghai/Gansu/Tibet, southern Yunnan close to the border with Myanmar and Laos, as well as western Guangdong and Guangxi, all other regions of China have a fair amount of Korean-passing types, with coastal Northern China having the most. My map of Korean "passability" in China (not scientific just my personal impression) Red: great overlap, a lot of people can pass in Korea Orange: some overlap, some people can pass Yellow: selective overlap, only a handful of selective or cherry-picked individuals can pass Green: seldom or rare overlap, very few individuals can pass
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throway2
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Fengshui Professional
Posts: 206
Likes: 28
Ethnic Heritage: hmongid
Gender Identity: austronesian
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Post by throway2 on Mar 10, 2023 5:14:51 GMT
Individual 2 shirvanshah got it right, this woman is not from Hebei or Henan but instead she's from Hunan, more specifically from Zhuzhou, which is a city in eastern Hunan bordering Jiangxi. Interesting... I suppose eastern Hunan/Jiangxi might sometimes be on the same geographic cline as central Hebei/Nanais
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 8, 2023 23:49:54 GMT
Daily dose of Zhuang vocabulary. It's true that it has some Sinitic borrowings, but overall most of its basic vocabulary are still of native origin and are quite distinct from Sinitic.
Han nationalists need to stop claiming that Zhuang are just a branch of Han and respect and acknowledge their distinctiveness.
B
Bak - Mouth
Bu - Crab
Bing - Leech
Baet - To Clean / To Sweep
Bi - Year / Age
Baj - Aunt
Baeuq - To Blow
P
Paek - Pea Pod
Pi - Demon
Paeng - To Bury
Pungh - To Dash
Paij - Cotton
Pwek - Taro
Pek - To Break
Panj - To Slap
Mb
Mbaj - Crazy
Mboq - Spring Water
Mbwen - Moon / Month
Mbang - Thin
Mbanj - Village
Mbaeu - Light (adj)
M
Moz - Cattle
Maex - Tree
Mak - Fruit
Miq - Vinegar
Ma - Dog
Maij - Pale
Mwah - Time
My
Myaek - To Scold
Myag - Muddy
Myaez - To Exchange
Myaenj - Inside Out
F
Fax - Sky
Fangz - Straw
Faengz - Happy
Faenz - Seed
Fad - To Beat
Faet - To Whip
Fek - Side Parting (Hairstyle)
V
Vah - To Speak
Vaemz - Sentence
Vaek - To Toy With / To Dally
Vi - Comb
Vanz - Asking For Help
Vieng - Silence
Vuo - Head (n) / To Laugh (v)
Py
Pya - Mountain
Pyaek - Vegetables
Pyak - To Bask / To Dry under the Sun
Pyaeuh - Ash
Pyongh - Half / Midway
Pyaeng - Pricking
Pyaij - To Walk
By
Bya - Fish
Byaeuq - Empty
Byuk - To Urge / To Advise
Byau - A type of Bamboo
Byoih - To Release
Mby
Mbyog - Flower (likely a cognate of Indonesian "bunga")
D
Daet - To Tailor
Dwk - To Attack
Daem - To Pound
Di - To Block / Jam (as in traffic jam)
Dungj - End Point
Damq - One After Another
Dangq - Each
Du - Door
Daep - Liver
T
Toem - Pool
Twn - To Yield
Twng - To Arrive
Tien - To Know
Tam - To Ask
Tengq - Regardless
Tanq - Carbon
Nd
Ndaeng - Nose (likely a cognate of Indonesian "hidung")
Ndi - Guts / Courage
Ndang - Body
Ndeng - Red
Ndaem - Black
Ndek - Kid / Child
N
Nangz - Woman
Naeng - Skin
Ni - To Evade
Nwa - North / Up
Na - Thick / Dense
Nwax - Meat
Noemz - Milk
L
Lan - Grandson / Grandchildren
Laeng - Back
Lingz - Monkey
Lai - Many
Laiz - Saliva
Laengz - Frequently / Evenly
Li - To Squint
Ny
Nyungz - Mosquito
Nyaengz - Still
Nyinz - To Hear
Nyap - Tenacious / Tough
Nyod - Bud
Nyomx - To Dye
S
Sam - Three
Song - Two / Both
Siq - Four
Sip - Ten
Sung - Tall / High
San - To Weave
Saen - Spine
Z
Zog - Cup
Zuk - Congee
Zauh - Fried
Zung - To Lead Along
Zat - To Seal
Zaek - To Cleave
Zep - Pain
Ch
Changx - Elephant
Chamh - Plate / Dish
Chaz - Tea
Chaeux - Morning
Choih - To Help
Chet - To Wipe
C
Cung - Green Onion (likely a borrowing from Mandarin)
Congz - Table
Cweg - Rope
Ciek - To Tear Apart
Camj - Ferocious / Awesome
Caengz - Not Yet
Y
Yaep - A While
Yoi - To Criticize
Yaeng - To Respond
Yang - Resin
Yuq - At
Yieb - To Tread
Ywenj - A noun describing the time when the rain stops
G
Gaeq - Chicken
Goep - Frog
Gaet - To Bite
Gin - To Eat
Gangj - Fish Bone
Gungj - Shrimp
Gonq - First
Gy
Gyang - Middle / Center
Gyaenj - To Hold Back
Gyoen - To Snore
Gyong - Drum
Gyon - Latch
Gyai - The Year Before Last Year
K
Kae - To Open
Ka - Legs / Feet
Kuq - Pair
Kaeu - Rattan
Kaen - To Squawk / To Screech
Kaj - To Kill
Kai - To Sell
King - Ginger
Ky
Kyak - (Person) of big size
Kyau - To Throw
Kyang - Match
Kyangz - Both / Double
Glottal Stop /ʔ/ (denoted by zero consonant)
Oij - Sugar Cane
Aeu - Need / Want
Am - To cook dry rice
Ingj - To Choose
Enj - Swollen Tummy
Ab - To Swim
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 8, 2023 23:59:21 GMT
The Guangxi gymnast Qin Guohuan, narrow face with relatively large eyes and close-set eyebrows, a very typical appearance of Western GD and GX. A Cantonese vlogger on the Xiao Hongshu app, sharing similar features with the above Guangxi gymnast. Not sure why some commentators below are saying that she looks Hokkien or Northern Chinese, they are clearly ignorant about the phenotypes in Guangdong and Guangxi.
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throway2
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Fengshui Professional
Posts: 206
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Ethnic Heritage: hmongid
Gender Identity: austronesian
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Post by throway2 on Apr 13, 2023 18:23:18 GMT
mnopsc1bI now think that people from Henan can often pass better as Cantonese than Jiangnan people do... What are your thoughts on this statement?
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throway2
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Fengshui Professional
Posts: 206
Likes: 28
Ethnic Heritage: hmongid
Gender Identity: austronesian
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Post by throway2 on Apr 13, 2023 18:26:34 GMT
imgur.com/a/vRUKJvpHenanese people seem to often look like this? Which to me look very Cantonese? They are also not really found in Jiangsu
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throway2
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Fengshui Professional
Posts: 206
Likes: 28
Ethnic Heritage: hmongid
Gender Identity: austronesian
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Post by throway2 on Apr 13, 2023 18:33:42 GMT
Now, I will be making a very bold statement- I think the "Sinitic" invader armies and much of the "Baiyue" might have looked exactly the same. 1) The "Sinitics" were plausibly heavily drawn from places like southern Henan, Hubei, southern Shaanxi, northern Hunan. 2) Most "Baiyue" probably looked more like Hmongs 3) Hmongs and people from the places I listed can often look exactly the same 4) Some amount in Sichuan probably looked like Wa or Mlabri people, who can often look identical to Shaanxi people and Khalkha Mongols In general, I think "pure" Austroasiatics (without Austronesian-associated admixture) and Hmong can often look very much like so-called "Sinitics"? On the left is the leader of the Wa State in Myanmar. Doesn't he have this Guan Yu - terracotta warrior - Khampa tibetan vibe? Many Wa people look like him? Here are some regular Wa soldiers: There skin tone is a bit off, but don't they look very 兵马俑 esque in facial structure? Lighter-skinned Wa can often pass in Gansu? And it's not like Gansu is particularly light-skinned either...
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 13, 2023 23:02:28 GMT
LOL the Shandong chauvinist throway2 / observer_t is starting to spewing out weird outlandish claims yet again. Neither Henan nor Jiangnan resembles Guangdong/Guangxi, in fact Henan and Jiangnan probably have more resemblances with each other than either has with the Far South. Both look significantly more northern compared to people from Lingnan. Historically speaking Jiangnan was the major destination of Sinitic migrants, particularly those from Henan. And genetically according to the results from Wegene / 23Mofang a lot of people in Jiangnan score around 60-70% Northern Han (with the reference pop of Northern Han located somewhere in Henan), whereas those from Lingnan particularly the Canto/Yue speakers from Western GD and GX usually score less than 10% Northern Han. Canto/Yue speakers have the greatest overlap with Tai-Kradai peoples from Far South / Southwest China and Northern SE Asia like Dong, Hlai, Zhuang, Bouyei, Mulam, Tai Lue, Tay Nung, Tai Yuan, Isan, and various other Northern Thai peoples. Not only do they resemble these Tai-Kradai peoples in terms of appearance (a narrowish face with relatively large eyes and eyebrows set close to the eyes which give out a deep-eyed impression), but linguistically and genetically they are also related and have great overlaps. Sinitic ethno-centrists need to acknowledge and accept the fact that Cantonese are mostly of native descent. A well-known Chinese Douyin celebrity Yi Guangbian, who is a Tai Lue girl from Sipsong Panna / Xishuang Banna. It's not hard to see that her facial features have a lot of resemblances to the GD/GX girls that I've posted in this thread before.
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 13, 2023 23:35:25 GMT
imgur.com/a/vRUKJvpHenanese people seem to often look like this? Which to me look very Cantonese? They are also not really found in Jiangsu LOL Cantonese people don't look like that. The most typical Cantonese appearance resembles the Annamid and Indosinid types, with a narrowish face and relatively large and deep-set eyes, which are commonly found among the various Tai-Kradai peoples. This Henan guy has a typical Central Chinese appearance, and if you ever see a Cantonese looking like that then chances are high that this person has recent Northern or Central Chinese ancestry. The Pearl River Delta metropolitan region is quite mixed these days. And the most typical Henan appearance that I can think of is the comedian Yue Yunpeng.
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 13, 2023 23:58:30 GMT
Baiyue weren't Sinitic at all, if the Baiyue were Sinitic then why the ancient Sinitic people bothered to call them by a different name? And Baiyue weren't Hmong-Mien either. Baiyue most likely referred to the various Tai-Kradai peoples living in the south of China, around GD and GX mostly. As for Hmong-Mien, their ancestors were likely the Jing Man, Wuxi Man, or Wuling Man residing in Hunan and Hubei. Man and Hmong are sort of similar in terms of pronunciation. And Hmong-Mien aren't the same as Austroasiatic, although both of them descend from Inland Southern East Asians they've diverged from one another thousands of years ago, and subsequently mixed with different peoples; Hmong-Mien mixed with Sinitic and Tibeto-Burman peoples (according to some linguists the numbers 6 to 10 in Hmong derived from an unknown Tibeto-Burman donor language), whereas the Austroasiatic peoples mixed with the native Hoabinhians of SE Asia. Some Wa leaders might have actual Chinese ancestry and aren't suitable to be used as examples, I've heard that one of the former leaders of the Wa state was a man from Sichuan. Unlike Hmong-Mien, Austroasiatic peoples in general don't give me strong Sinitic impressions, no matter the Wa or others. Those Wa soldiers look typically SE Asian and don't look like Terracotta warriors or Han figurines at all, their faces are clearly smaller and more compact compared to the Qin and Han figurines, and their eye shapes are different too. The Qin and Han figurines still resemble modern Northern Chinese the most, and some of them also resemble Koreans and Mongolians, but few or none of them look Far South Chinese/SE Asian. Sinitic ethno-centrists need to accept their northern roots and stop claiming / stealing the cultures of Austronesian, Austroasiatic, and Tai-Kradai. Some photos of Wa girls that I've found, none of them look Sinitic to me In group pictures you start to see a few Wa that look Sinitic (like the Wa woman on the left), which is understandable since they're living in a country dominated by Sinitics and mixtures are inevitable, however most of them still look rather distinct to me, especially the woman in the middle she looks typically SE Asian Other Austroasiatic peoples in SE Asia look even less Sinitic Mlabri father and son Bahnar people And let's end this thread with some beautiful Khmer apsara dancers, Khmers being part of the Austroasiatic family too. In brief I think apart from some Vietnamese the majority of Austroasiatic peoples don't look Sinitic at all.
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throway2
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Fengshui Professional
Posts: 206
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Ethnic Heritage: hmongid
Gender Identity: austronesian
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Post by throway2 on Apr 14, 2023 0:25:46 GMT
In group pictures you start to see a few Wa that look Sinitic (like the Wa woman on the left), which is understandable since they're living in a country dominated by Sinitics and mixtures are inevitable, however most of them still look rather distinct to me, especially the woman in the middle she looks typically SE Asian All of these can unironically pass in Tibet.
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throway2
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Fengshui Professional
Posts: 206
Likes: 28
Ethnic Heritage: hmongid
Gender Identity: austronesian
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Post by throway2 on Apr 14, 2023 0:29:20 GMT
LOL Cantonese people don't look like that. The most typical Cantonese appearance resembles the Annamid and Indosinid types, with a narrowish face and relatively large and deep-set eyes, which are commonly found among the various Tai-Kradai peoples. This Henan guy has a typical Central Chinese appearance, and if you ever see a Cantonese looking like that then chances are high that this person has recent Northern or Central Chinese ancestry. The Pearl River Delta metropolitan region is quite mixed these days. And the most typical Henan appearance that I can think of is the comedian Yue Yunpeng. Are you blind? Have you ever seen a goddamn Cantonese person in your life? Also Yue Yunpeng is definitely found in Guangdong...
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 14, 2023 0:32:55 GMT
In group pictures you start to see a few Wa that look Sinitic (like the Wa woman on the left), which is understandable since they're living in a country dominated by Sinitics and mixtures are inevitable, however most of them still look rather distinct to me, especially the woman in the middle she looks typically SE Asian All of these can unironically pass in Tibet. The only one that can pass in Tibet for certain is the left one, who probably has Sinitic bloodlines. The right one could maybe pass, I'm 50/50 on that. And the middle one cannot pass in Tibet at all.
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throway2
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Fengshui Professional
Posts: 206
Likes: 28
Ethnic Heritage: hmongid
Gender Identity: austronesian
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Post by throway2 on Apr 14, 2023 0:34:04 GMT
LOL the Shandong chauvinist throway2 / observer_t is starting to spewing out weird outlandish claims yet again. Neither Henan nor Jiangnan resembles Guangdong/Guangxi, in fact Henan and Jiangnan probably have more resemblances with each other than either has with the Far South. Both look significantly more northern compared to people from Lingnan. Historically speaking Jiangnan was the major destination of Sinitic migrants, particularly those from Henan. And genetically according to the results from Wegene / 23Mofang a lot of people in Jiangnan score around 60-70% Northern Han (with the reference pop of Northern Han located somewhere in Henan), whereas those from Lingnan particularly the Canto/Yue speakers from Western GD and GX usually score less than 10% Northern Han. Canto/Yue speakers have the greatest overlap with Tai-Kradai peoples from Far South / Southwest China and Northern SE Asia like Dong, Hlai, Zhuang, Bouyei, Mulam, Tai Lue, Tay Nung, Tai Yuan, Isan, and various other Northern Thai peoples. Not only do they resemble these Tai-Kradai peoples in terms of appearance (a narrowish face with relatively large eyes and eyebrows set close to the eyes which give out a deep-eyed impression), but linguistically and genetically they are also related and have great overlaps. Sinitic ethno-centrists need to acknowledge and accept the fact that Cantonese are mostly of native descent. A well-known Chinese Douyin celebrity Yi Guangbian, who is a Tai Lue girl from Sipsong Panna / Xishuang Banna. It's not hard to see that her facial features have a lot of resemblances to the GD/GX girls that I've posted in this thread before. This girl is just a generic austronesian mediaoid. She is found in Jiangsu.
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Apr 14, 2023 0:35:35 GMT
LOL Cantonese people don't look like that. The most typical Cantonese appearance resembles the Annamid and Indosinid types, with a narrowish face and relatively large and deep-set eyes, which are commonly found among the various Tai-Kradai peoples. This Henan guy has a typical Central Chinese appearance, and if you ever see a Cantonese looking like that then chances are high that this person has recent Northern or Central Chinese ancestry. The Pearl River Delta metropolitan region is quite mixed these days. And the most typical Henan appearance that I can think of is the comedian Yue Yunpeng. Are you blind? Have you ever seen a goddamn Cantonese person in your life? Also Yue Yunpeng is definitely found in Guangdong... LOL I'd like to ask the same question to you, have you ever seen a Cantonese in your life? And some metropolitan Cantonese or Cantonese Americans might not be the best representatives, since they likely have mixtures with other peoples. I have a lot of friends and acquaintances from GD and GX, and I know how they look. Nope Yue Yunpeng has a typical Northern Chinese look and it's very hard for him to pass in the Far South.
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