mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 25, 2023 3:12:25 GMT
A lot of the times the perceived differences between mainland Chinese and oversea Chinese come from differences in fashion, styles, make-up, and facial expressions rather than actual phenotype differences. Mainland Chinese students especially guys tend to have this very old-fashioned bowl-cut which tends to exaggerate their facial width, and combined with a high percentage of myopic students wearing thick glasses this tends to create a rather stark visual difference between them and oversea Chinese which tend to have better hairstyles and more often than not wear contact lenses rather than glasses. However if the two are having the same style than the differences would be much smaller almost negligible. And there's also the issue of weight. Mainland Chinese culture tends to put more pressure on women to stay in shape and much less aesthetic pressure on men, hence the reason why there're more overweight men than women in China; and for overseas Chinese I feel it's exactly the opposite, the aesthetic pressure on men is higher than that on women. Hence the reason why you see more fit small-faced ABC guys compared to mainland Chinese guys, but for women it's the opposite. And Beijing is a typical example of how weight influences phenotype. According to statistics Beijing ranks the top among Chinese cities in terms of obesity, with nearly 25% of Beijingers being either overweight or obese. If you've ever been to Beijing you'd surely notice that the breakfast in Beijing is very high in carbs and in sugar, for instance fried doughs the size of my small arm, or sweet deep-fried pancakes twice the width of my face, not to mention the various types of steamed buns, noodles, cakes, animal organs cooked in deep oil, etc. No other place in China has as heavy a breakfast as Beijing. I've watched many online streaming from different parts of China that's why I'm quite accustomed to the phenotype differences among Chinese, but the food differences are equally striking. I remember I've watched two ethnic Ayni / Hani girls from Yunnan having breakfast and their version of fried dough was like only 1/3 to maybe 1/4 the size of the one in Beijing, and when they ate it they dipped it in a bowl of chili sauce as opposed to dipping it in soy milk. And they also drank a type of vermicelli soup with vegetables. And I've watched two ethnic Hmong / Miao girls from Guangxi having breakfast and their breakfast was a small bowl of tea porridge or tea congee. That's how the South Chinese stay in shape. Really when talking about Chinese food being heathier than western food one must exclude Beijing food from the list cause that's definitely not the case. With the exception of southern minorities in China, I would say that all Chinese food is unhealthy and worse in nutrition than western food. In the West it is true that McDonalds diet people are obese, but middle class White people definitely eat healthier than average Chinese people. They eat a lot of cold meats, salads and many are very nutrition/diet obsessed compared to Chinese people. Even unhealthier options like burgers aren't even that bad compared to sodium oil packed baozi. Also Chinese people eat a ton of weird snacks, like Latiao, which is worse than Chocolate imo for health. For bulk Chinese people today, their diet is this oily fatty mess packed with sodium and carbs. Anecdotally speaking, after eating a large Chinese meal, I feel tired and sluggish. But after eating a burger and a sandwich, I feel more mobile and energetic. Depends on what type of baozi you eat though. I'm perhaps one of the few Chinese that does not like Xiaolongbao and other types of steamed buns with meat fillings; I prefer su baozi or veggie buns. And among different types of su baozi the ones that I like the most are the one with carrot strips and scrambled egg as filling and also the one with fennel and scrambled egg filling. I've always thought that fennel was a native Chinese plant until one day I looked up on wikipedia and found that the type of fennel currently consumed by Northern Chinese was actually a vegetable from ancient Greece and Rome and was brought to China via the Silk Road. But I agree with the rest of what you said. Yes Chinese foods in general are oilier and less healthier than western foods.
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 25, 2023 3:19:20 GMT
I think part of the reason for ABC girls being bigfaced compared to PRC zoomer girls could be due to feeding/exercise differences, but for the most part I have not found an explanation other than the fact that growth pattern between ABCs and Chinese Millenials/Zoomers differ. I think nonfat Beijing student types still differ to Abcs. Even the skinnier Beijing HS males are oftentimes very large skulled with projecting bones while ABCs lack bone definition and features look rounded/smoothed out. I sort of also remember large faced Guangzhou millenial males at times (they also oftentimes had this chiseled facial structure) and I think Canto ABCs are also smaller faced than they are, but yeah for girls it is reversed. Again, weight is most likely the cause. Mainland Chinese society puts more pressure on women to stay fit while being more lax on the appearance of men, whereas for oversea Chinese it's probably the opposite. Most of the mainland South Chinese women that I've known and dated are around 40 to 50 kg, and mainland North Chinese women around 45 to 60 kg. I don't really care about the weight of women that much but a lot of mainland Chinese women do come off as rather thin and underweight to me.
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uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Jan 25, 2023 3:30:12 GMT
How lookist are Chinese women? My impression is that these days, Chinese women have rather high standards for males especially in finance, which I am a bit sad about, as I dislike how Chinese society currently is hypergamy shifted and obsessed about status driven. However, in many cities, it seems like many fit Chinese women are partnered with an overweight unattractive man. I suspect Chinese women are more relaxed about male looks, right?
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uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Jan 25, 2023 3:42:12 GMT
In all honestly, I feel like in current Chinese society, there is a lot of burden place on the males; they are expected to outearn their female partner, have a house/car at the go and life for many seems to be this grinding hellhole. Meanwhile, Chinese girls are sometimes expected to just "marry a good man", which I perceive as opting out of struggles in some ways. Not to undermine the issues of Chinese women of course, but personally I dislike the patriarchy and it would be good if gender equality was more of a thing in China; women and men having equal expectations and males looking after children without getting mocked.
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Jan 25, 2023 5:53:37 GMT
I agree Ma Huateng looks generic enough to probably be pan Chinese and that SEA Chinese in his posts do pass in Mainland South China. I think all SEA Chinese/ABCs pass in China, since China is diverse and has a wide range of growth patterns, but not all Chinese people pass overseas, partially because of phenotype limitation but also partially due to different growth pattern/environment derived factors. With Ma Huateng the "gracile" SEA-like regional vibe is more obvious in older photos where he looks visibly younger. compared to I'm not saying visibly admixed SEA Chinese can't pass in Mainland China either, but I do think the native Indonesian-like vibe Anna En, Terence Then ("Hokkien beng" in the video), and Benjamin Kheng have (maybe it's harder to see with just one stock photo/video each) is slightly different from the Daic-shifted vibe Pearl River basin Chinese tend to have. Ben Kheng is almost certainly Peranakan even if Anna En and Terence Then might not be. James Ma having partial Thai Chinese ancestry doesn't rule out the possibility of him having actual Siamese/Mon/whatever ancestry. He doesn't look obviously not-Chinese the way fellow Thai national Sornnarin Tippoch or wrestler Dolgorsürengiin Serjbüdee do, but if I didn't know who he was I'd guess him as SEA Chinese before PRC, TW, or HK Chinese due to looking vaguely Thai.
How well do Thaksin Shinawatra and his daughter pass in Guangdong? I see what you mean. What's the name of the Cantonese Beng dude? Anna En looks a bit different from most Chinese Thais while Terence Then looks more like a Chinese descendant with visible Siamese admixture. Benjamin Kheng also looks very different from most Chinese Thais as if he also has Siamese ancestry. He is probably Peranakan indeed. Agreed that James Ma have that vibe seen mainly in many Chinese descendants in Thailand. Were the other SEA Chinese that have similar look to him Chinese Indonesians, Singaporeans or Malaysians? Does M.R. Pridiyathorn Devakula and his son show any Siamese/Mon/Khmer admixture? Where in Greater China region can you see them passing? He is the former governor of Bank of Thailand, former minister of finance and deputy prime minister. Going by his phenotype alone, he is definitely of Chinese descent (although I can't find any information online about his Chinese background) but very assimilated (likely doesn't speak any Chinese or practice Chinese customs) as he is the great grandson of King Rama IV of Siam. M.R= Mom Rajawongse which is a rank for the royal family descendants. mnopsc1b uisashiHis son who is a TV host and newscaster.
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uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Jan 25, 2023 6:22:37 GMT
With Ma Huateng the "gracile" SEA-like regional vibe is more obvious in older photos where he looks visibly younger. compared to I'm not saying visibly admixed SEA Chinese can't pass in Mainland China either, but I do think the native Indonesian-like vibe Anna En, Terence Then ("Hokkien beng" in the video), and Benjamin Kheng have (maybe it's harder to see with just one stock photo/video each) is slightly different from the Daic-shifted vibe Pearl River basin Chinese tend to have. Ben Kheng is almost certainly Peranakan even if Anna En and Terence Then might not be. James Ma having partial Thai Chinese ancestry doesn't rule out the possibility of him having actual Siamese/Mon/whatever ancestry. He doesn't look obviously not-Chinese the way fellow Thai national Sornnarin Tippoch or wrestler Dolgorsürengiin Serjbüdee do, but if I didn't know who he was I'd guess him as SEA Chinese before PRC, TW, or HK Chinese due to looking vaguely Thai.
How well do Thaksin Shinawatra and his daughter pass in Guangdong? I see what you mean. What's the name of the Cantonese Beng dude? Anna En looks a bit different from most Chinese Thais while Terence Then looks more like a Chinese descendant with visible Siamese admixture. Benjamin Kheng also looks very different from most Chinese Thais as if he also has Siamese ancestry. He is probably Peranakan indeed. Agreed that James Ma have that vibe seen mainly in many Chinese descendants in Thailand. Were the other SEA Chinese that have similar look to him Chinese Indonesians, Singaporeans or Malaysians? Does M.R. Pridiyathorn Devakula and his son show any Siamese/Mon/Khmer admixture? Where in Greater China region can you see them passing? He is the former governor of Bank of Thailand, former minister of finance and deputy prime minister. Going by his phenotype alone, he is definitely of Chinese descent (although I can't find any information online about his Chinese background) but very assimilated (likely doesn't speak any Chinese or practice Chinese customs) as he is the great grandson of King Rama IV of Siam. M.R= Mom Rajawongse which is a rank for the royal family descendants. mnopsc1b uisashi His son who is a TV host and newscaster. They look generic SE Chinese? Can't see anything distinct about them tbh.
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 25, 2023 14:11:27 GMT
I don't think they show any obvious Siamese or Khmer admixture, and both can pass in China with relative ease. The father looks rather typical in Fujian/Taiwan, though may pass in other areas of Southern China as well. The son, strangely enough, gives me a strong Northern Chinese impression. I see no problem of him fitting in Beijing, Dongbei, or Shandong.
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 25, 2023 14:17:58 GMT
How lookist are Chinese women? My impression is that these days, Chinese women have rather high standards for males especially in finance, which I am a bit sad about, as I dislike how Chinese society currently is hypergamy shifted and obsessed about status driven. However, in many cities, it seems like many fit Chinese women are partnered with an overweight unattractive man. I suspect Chinese women are more relaxed about male looks, right? Traditional Chinese culture expects men to be financially well-off, and any men who is financially well-off is considered to be "successful" regardless of how he looks. That's the reason why you see a lot of fit Chinese women partnered with unattractive men. Yes, I'd say that Chinese women are the least "lookist" among all East/SE Asian women, though it's beginning to change with the younger generations.
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Jan 25, 2023 16:31:41 GMT
I don't think they show any obvious Siamese or Khmer admixture, and both can pass in China with relative ease. The father looks rather typical in Fujian/Taiwan, though may pass in other areas of Southern China as well. The son, strangely enough, gives me a strong Northern Chinese impression. I see no problem of him fitting in Beijing, Dongbei, or Shandong. uisashi That's interesting. Tbh, I can't see any non-Chinese in them either. Was wondering because they are very assimilated (can't find any info of their Chinese ancestry) and are part of the royal bloodline. There are actually a lot of Chinese descendants in Thailand similar to their cases. Some of Rattanakosin royal descendants and aristocrats seems heavily Chinese admixed to the point that they are genetically predominantly Chinese so its possible that Devakula and his son might have very little to zero Siamese/Mon/Khmer admixture.
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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jan 25, 2023 20:00:40 GMT
I think part of the reason for ABC girls being bigfaced compared to PRC zoomer girls could be due to feeding/exercise differences, but for the most part I have not found an explanation other than the fact that growth pattern between ABCs and Chinese Millenials/Zoomers differ. I think nonfat Beijing student types still differ to Abcs. Even the skinnier Beijing HS males are oftentimes very large skulled with projecting bones while ABCs lack bone definition and features look rounded/smoothed out. I sort of also remember large faced Guangzhou millenial males at times (they also oftentimes had this chiseled facial structure) and I think Canto ABCs are also smaller faced than they are, but yeah for girls it is reversed. Again, weight is most likely the cause. Mainland Chinese society puts more pressure on women to stay fit while being more lax on the appearance of men, whereas for oversea Chinese it's probably the opposite. Most of the mainland South Chinese women that I've known and dated are around 40 to 50 kg, and mainland North Chinese women around 45 to 60 kg. I don't really care about the weight of women that much but a lot of mainland Chinese women do come off as rather thin and underweight to me. Disagree with the bolded part (and with the assertion that Western food is healthier than China Chinese food across the board), probably because I live in the US. I still think there's slightly more fat-shaming of Overseas Chinese women here than there is of men, just not to the ridiculous levels we see in modern China. With Ma Huateng the "gracile" SEA-like regional vibe is more obvious in older photos where he looks visibly younger. compared to I'm not saying visibly admixed SEA Chinese can't pass in Mainland China either, but I do think the native Indonesian-like vibe Anna En, Terence Then ("Hokkien beng" in the video), and Benjamin Kheng have (maybe it's harder to see with just one stock photo/video each) is slightly different from the Daic-shifted vibe Pearl River basin Chinese tend to have. Ben Kheng is almost certainly Peranakan even if Anna En and Terence Then might not be. James Ma having partial Thai Chinese ancestry doesn't rule out the possibility of him having actual Siamese/Mon/whatever ancestry. He doesn't look obviously not-Chinese the way fellow Thai national Sornnarin Tippoch or wrestler Dolgorsürengiin Serjbüdee do, but if I didn't know who he was I'd guess him as SEA Chinese before PRC, TW, or HK Chinese due to looking vaguely Thai. I see what you mean. What's the name of the Cantonese Beng dude? Anna En looks a bit different from most Chinese Thais while Terence Then looks more like a Chinese descendant with visible Siamese admixture. Benjamin Kheng also looks very different from most Chinese Thais as if he also has Siamese ancestry. He is probably Peranakan indeed. Agreed that James Ma have that vibe seen mainly in many Chinese descendants in Thailand. Were the other SEA Chinese that have similar look to him Chinese Indonesians, Singaporeans or Malaysians? Does M.R. Pridiyathorn Devakula and his son show any Siamese/Mon/Khmer admixture? Where in Greater China region can you see them passing? He is the former governor of Bank of Thailand, former minister of finance and deputy prime minister. Going by his phenotype alone, he is definitely of Chinese descent (although I can't find any information online about his Chinese background) but very assimilated (likely doesn't speak any Chinese or practice Chinese customs) as he is the great grandson of King Rama IV of Siam. M.R= Mom Rajawongse which is a rank for the royal family descendants. Cantonese Beng (https://www.instagram.com/smallalex/) looks more recognizably PRC to me than Terence Then I haven't met that many SEA Chinese in person but the person he reminds me of was born in Malaysia. M.R. Devakula and his son probably have some native ancestry but it isn't obvious from their facial features. The only giveaway that the son might not be PRC Chinese is his mouth/lips region. Their skin tone is naturally found among South China Chinese too as well as in Northern China, even if their light brown skin tone is an expression of Siamese/Mon/Khmer/etc ancestry. The "pseudo-Nordsinid", pseudo-Teochew face type with a long narrow face and high eyebrows among a lot of Thai nationals you've posted seems distinctly Thai.
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uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Jan 25, 2023 22:51:02 GMT
What even is Siamese admix causing someone to not look PRC? Like aren't select Guangxi people probably more "Siamese" than Teochews in Thailand.
Ok who eats more calories, ABC girls or north china zoomer girls? I think as a whole, north china zoomer girls are rather smallfaced compared to Abc girls even despite them having more obese people. ABC girls even when thin, have this chogger facial structure with a big face.
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 26, 2023 0:48:51 GMT
Typical Siamese/Khmer look is exemplified by the Muay Thai legend Buakaw Banchamek and his student Superbon Singha Mawynn, you won't find their appearance anywhere in China or in East Asia. At most I could see them passing as the Austroasiatic ethnic Wa minority from Yunnan or maybe some ethnic Tai-Kradai minorities in Yunnan and Guangxi, but even that would be a stretch. Compared to them, Mr. Devakula and his son just look straightly Chinese to me. I don't understand why okarinaofsteiner keeps emphasizing "non-PRC" as if being able to pass in PRC is some kind of bane or poison to him, TBH both Mr. Devakula and his son would pass quite well in PRC and none of their features gives me "non-Chinese" or "non-PRC" vibes, neither their skin color nor their mouth or lips. I think okarina has a very poor grasp or understanding of the diversity within PRC itself. Especially his son, I think he can blend in very well in Northern China. If I see his son on the streets of Beijing I'd probably start speaking Beijing-style Mandarin to him, I won't even give a second thought that he isn't Chinese.
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 26, 2023 0:57:19 GMT
What even is Siamese admix causing someone to not look PRC? Like aren't select Guangxi people probably more "Siamese" than Teochews in Thailand. There're a lot of GX people that look more "SE Asian" or more "Siamese" than the Hokkiens or Teochews in Thailand, I'm too lazy to search for pictures so allow me to re-use the pictures that I've posted at the beginning of the thread. And even some Cantonese speakers from GD look more "Siamese" than Hokkiens or Teochews, like for instance the former Guangzhou soccer player Feng Junyan, he looks a bit like Superbon Singha Mawynn in this photo (again I'm too lazy to search for other examples)
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 26, 2023 1:07:33 GMT
Again, weight is most likely the cause. Mainland Chinese society puts more pressure on women to stay fit while being more lax on the appearance of men, whereas for oversea Chinese it's probably the opposite. Most of the mainland South Chinese women that I've known and dated are around 40 to 50 kg, and mainland North Chinese women around 45 to 60 kg. I don't really care about the weight of women that much but a lot of mainland Chinese women do come off as rather thin and underweight to me. Disagree with the bolded part (and with the assertion that Western food is healthier than China Chinese food across the board), probably because I live in the US. I still think there's slightly more fat-shaming of Overseas Chinese women here than there is of men, just not to the ridiculous levels we see in modern China. It's true that fat-shaming of overseas Chinese women still exists, but compared to Mainland China the extent is much less severe. And regarding the food, it largely depends on how you make them. For instance the example that I used earlier, rou baozi vs su baozi, it's true that su baozi would be the healthier option, but rou baozi with a lot of oil juice inside like Xiaolongbao is more tasty. And overall, Chinese cuisine does seem to contain more oil and MSG than western food, and those features can be seen as more unhealthy. I guess only the Hot Pot is an exception since it's boiled and not stir-fried. Some steamed Chinese foods like steamed rice or noodles may also be an exception. But then again, it largely depends on how you make them, nothing stops you from not adding too much MSG or oil.
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Jan 26, 2023 1:12:36 GMT
Again, weight is most likely the cause. Mainland Chinese society puts more pressure on women to stay fit while being more lax on the appearance of men, whereas for oversea Chinese it's probably the opposite. Most of the mainland South Chinese women that I've known and dated are around 40 to 50 kg, and mainland North Chinese women around 45 to 60 kg. I don't really care about the weight of women that much but a lot of mainland Chinese women do come off as rather thin and underweight to me. Disagree with the bolded part (and with the assertion that Western food is healthier than China Chinese food across the board), probably because I live in the US. I still think there's slightly more fat-shaming of Overseas Chinese women here than there is of men, just not to the ridiculous levels we see in modern China. I see what you mean. What's the name of the Cantonese Beng dude? Anna En looks a bit different from most Chinese Thais while Terence Then looks more like a Chinese descendant with visible Siamese admixture. Benjamin Kheng also looks very different from most Chinese Thais as if he also has Siamese ancestry. He is probably Peranakan indeed. Agreed that James Ma have that vibe seen mainly in many Chinese descendants in Thailand. Were the other SEA Chinese that have similar look to him Chinese Indonesians, Singaporeans or Malaysians? Does M.R. Pridiyathorn Devakula and his son show any Siamese/Mon/Khmer admixture? Where in Greater China region can you see them passing? He is the former governor of Bank of Thailand, former minister of finance and deputy prime minister. Going by his phenotype alone, he is definitely of Chinese descent (although I can't find any information online about his Chinese background) but very assimilated (likely doesn't speak any Chinese or practice Chinese customs) as he is the great grandson of King Rama IV of Siam. M.R= Mom Rajawongse which is a rank for the royal family descendants. Cantonese Beng (https://www.instagram.com/smallalex/) looks more recognizably PRC to me than Terence Then I haven't met that many SEA Chinese in person but the person he reminds me of was born in Malaysia. M.R. Devakula and his son probably have some native ancestry but it isn't obvious from their facial features. The only giveaway that the son might not be PRC Chinese is his mouth/lips region. Their skin tone is naturally found among South China Chinese too as well as in Northern China, even if their light brown skin tone is an expression of Siamese/Mon/Khmer/etc ancestry. The "pseudo-Nordsinid", pseudo-Teochew face type with a long narrow face and high eyebrows among a lot of Thai nationals you've posted seems distinctly Thai.Agreed. I also think Terence Then looks more SE Asian-shifted. Just curious, do I look more SE Asian influenced than both him and his son? What makes the "pseudo-Nordsinid"/pseudo Teochew face type with those features bolded look distinctly Thai?
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