shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Jan 17, 2023 7:01:40 GMT
Agreed, but Northern and Northeast Thais are not seen as "ethnic minorities" and "different ethnic groups" by other Thais. In fact, Northeasteners make up like the majority of Thailand's population; they are even more numerous than Siamese/Central Thais (Bangkok included). While there are around 6 million Northern Thais btw (not sure if hill tribes are included). Well I was reading some posts on Quora that says that its harder to discriminate and hate another group if they resemble you in looks besides the shared cultural and religious similarities, of course. Thus making, the Chinese migrants easier to assimilate. In the case of Philippines, yes Christianity probably is more inclusive and makes it easier for the Chinese there to also integrate unlike Malaysia/Indonesia. Btw, in the case of Philippines, I noticed many Igorots/Cordillerans can resemble Southern Chinese minorities, Vietnamese, some Far Southern Chinese as well unlike most Flips, but its probably not a big factor as you wrote. Sorry for off topic, but I noticed a lot of Thais seem to be confused by the the concept of "ethnicity" and "race". If you ask someone from Chiang Rai and another person from South, what their ethnicities are, they will say "Thai" even though that's far from the truth. Or if you ask a Lao speaker from Isan if he is different ethnicity from a Bangkoker of Chinese descent, he will be confused and say they are both "Thai". It's like they don't understand what the word "ethnicity" means. I'm guessing Standard Thai doesn't have separate words for "nationality" and "ethnicity"? What you're describing sounds similar to Japan and the Koreas in that regard. Although it's possible the people you're talking to just don't want to go into more detail to be polite. How easy is reading, writing Mandarin for you? Does your parents also speak other Chinese variants? Kind of, but I have Simplified Chinese keyboards on both my personal computer and my smartphone so that makes it much easier. Being involved in online pop anthro communities also helps, even though all of our communication here is in English. Another Chinese American I've dated before who can't read or write Chinese but uses WeChat to video call relatives in China introduced me to this app called Pieco, which basically functions as an English-Written Chinese translator. Yes, it's what you'd expect considering where in China they're from. I can answer in more detail privately if you'd like, won't post too much here. Actually it does have separate words for those two terms. But so many Thais still seem confused by the concept of nationality and ethnicity. From what I know, Northern Thais and Isan aren't regarded as separated ethnic groups by other Thais. I don't know the reason why though. Possibly has to do with Thaification policies by many successive governments starting from Phibunsongkhram who wants everyone in the country to be "Thai" practicing Central Thai culture and speaing Standard Thai (based on Bangkok accent). In fact, this confusion might also stems partly from the fact that in Thai passports, ID cards and birth certificates, you literally have to put your ethnicity as "Thai" and religion as "Buddhism" even if you are not of Siamese/Central Thai in origin. They might want to be polite but I feel they genuinely don't know the difference between nationality and ethnicity or never thought about them. This is very different from Burmese, Indonesians or even Pinoys who seem to know their ethnolinguistic groups/tribes and categorize themselves by them such as Bamar, Mon, Kayin, Javanese, Sundanese, Minangkabau, Batak, Tagalog, Visayan, Ilocano, Kapampangan, etc. I never heard of these type of ethnic/tribal categorization from Thais. It's seems a lot of Thais are completely ignorant and unaware about their own ethnic origins and family backgrounds. Can you elaborate and explain how it sounds similar to Japan and Koreas in this aspect? Do many Japanese and Koreans also get confused by the term ethnicity and nationality and mix them up? Can you read traditional characters? Have you been in Chinese language anthro forums such as ranhaer? I see. Thank you.
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uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Jan 17, 2023 11:03:41 GMT
Mandarin Corner's face shape and proportions are "sudsinid"-ish. Face is broad, eyes are spaced further apart, forehead is wider and lower, facial proportions are a bit similar to Deng Xiaoping (who is unarguably southern-looking facially). When I say her eyes look bigger, it's based on the size of the colored parts of her eyes relative to the rest of her face- which I don't think a lot of people pay that much attention to when evaluating facial features. Usually they only pay attention to the shape of the eyes. Fan Bingbing might have "large" eyes with artificial double eyelids, but the shape of her eyes and the way they intersect with her face/head shape is fundamentally Northern. Shuo from Shuoshuo Chinese is from Changsha and she speaks in Changsha dialect in some of her videos. While her eyes are smaller relative to the rest of her face, they're also spaced farther apart, which gives her face a more SEA composite vibe. Zhang Yimou, having a characteristically Northern Chinese look, has relatively narrow-set eyes shirvanshah - Ma Huateng is an example of someone who looks very distinctly Teochew to me. I rarely see people in the US who look like him unless they're SEA Chinese of probable Teochew ancestry. I've met maybe one PRC origin person who may have been named after a county/village in the Chaoshan area who kind of resembles him. Li Ka-shing had an preteen/teenage Amos Yee (before he grew his hair out long and started wearing glasses) like vibe when he was younger Half-Thai Chinese + half-Hong Kong (Teochew) heritage ( according to Wikipedia) actor James Ma looks distinctly Thai Chinese to me, idk why. Something to do with the crease in his eyes, the dimples in his face when he smiles, and his lips suggests not-China/TW/HK ethnic Chinese to me. Singaporean actor Chen Shucheng (Teochew heritage) looks more familiar to me though. Nope you need to stop randomly assign people to the Sudsinid category. Mandarin Corner isn't Sudsinid cause she doesn't look southern enough, even Shuoshuo Chinese from Changsha looks more southern than her, let alone those from places further south like Guangdong or Guangxi. None of her features scream Sudsinid to me, broad face with eyes set far apart aren't Sudsinid features but are instead found among many Mittelsinids, Nordsinids, and Tungids. Wide and low forehead can also be found among Central/Northern Chinese as well as Tungids. I would consider Mandarin Corner to be a distinct Mittelsinid type with perhaps some Tungid or ancient Sinitic influences. I can see some resemblances between her type and certain Han figurines I've seen. You know what's even better? Maybe we should abandon these outdated terms altogether. I kind of agree with throway in that we shouldn't simply group people as "northern" and "southern" cause each region has its own peculiar characteristics. Does "Mittlesinid" and "Sudsinid" even exist? A southern Fujian Sudsinid will differ to a Guangxi Sudsinid, and even places like Hunan/Hubei have their own distinct "Sudsinid". "Nordsinid"...sort of exists? There is a specific north China distinct pheno that is consistent across all northern/central regions, but the latter categorisations should not exist.
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 17, 2023 13:59:25 GMT
Nope you need to stop randomly assign people to the Sudsinid category. Mandarin Corner isn't Sudsinid cause she doesn't look southern enough, even Shuoshuo Chinese from Changsha looks more southern than her, let alone those from places further south like Guangdong or Guangxi. None of her features scream Sudsinid to me, broad face with eyes set far apart aren't Sudsinid features but are instead found among many Mittelsinids, Nordsinids, and Tungids. Wide and low forehead can also be found among Central/Northern Chinese as well as Tungids. I would consider Mandarin Corner to be a distinct Mittelsinid type with perhaps some Tungid or ancient Sinitic influences. I can see some resemblances between her type and certain Han figurines I've seen. You know what's even better? Maybe we should abandon these outdated terms altogether. I kind of agree with throway in that we shouldn't simply group people as "northern" and "southern" cause each region has its own peculiar characteristics. Does "Mittlesinid" and "Sudsinid" even exist? A southern Fujian Sudsinid will differ to a Guangxi Sudsinid, and even places like Hunan/Hubei have their own distinct "Sudsinid". "Nordsinid"...sort of exists? There is a specific north China distinct pheno that is consistent across all northern/central regions, but the latter categorisations should not exist. Yep that's what I meant, Fujian types look different from Jiangxi types which in turn look different from Hunan types and which then in turn are different from Guangdong or Guangxi types, so how can they all be put together in the same category? Southern China is very diverse and each region has its own unique characteristics. And a "Mittelsinid" type from Sichuan would look different from the ones in Hubei or Jiangsu for instance. I agree that "Mittelsinid" and "Sudsinid" types shouldn't exist instead should be broken down into more regional-specific types. Northern China is overall more homogenous that I largely agree, though even for Northern China I think it may be somewhat of a stretch to group those from Ningxia or Gansu and those from Shandong or Dongbei into the same category.
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Jan 23, 2023 14:38:34 GMT
okarinaofsteiner @mnopsc21b I don't think Mandarin Corner's eyes are even that big. I wouldn't guess her ancestry as southern based on that feature alone. I can easily find Koreans with even larger eyes -- and yes, while she does look "stereotypically" pan Chinese, she could potentially blend as some atypical Korean. Her skin is also in my perspective, generic EA (neither light nor dark). Mandarin Corner's face shape and proportions are "sudsinid"-ish. Face is broad, eyes are spaced further apart, forehead is wider and lower, facial proportions are a bit similar to Deng Xiaoping (who is unarguably southern-looking facially). When I say her eyes look bigger, it's based on the size of the colored parts of her eyes relative to the rest of her face- which I don't think a lot of people pay that much attention to when evaluating facial features. Usually they only pay attention to the shape of the eyes. Fan Bingbing might have "large" eyes with artificial double eyelids, but the shape of her eyes and the way they intersect with her face/head shape is fundamentally Northern. Shuo from Shuoshuo Chinese is from Changsha and she speaks in Changsha dialect in some of her videos. While her eyes are smaller relative to the rest of her face, they're also spaced farther apart, which gives her face a more SEA composite vibe. Zhang Yimou, having a characteristically Northern Chinese look, has relatively narrow-set eyes shirvanshah - Ma Huateng is an example of someone who looks very distinctly Teochew to me. I rarely see people in the US who look like him unless they're SEA Chinese of probable Teochew ancestry. I've met maybe one PRC origin person who may have been named after a county/village in the Chaoshan area who kind of resembles him. Li Ka-shing had an preteen/teenage Amos Yee (before he grew his hair out long and started wearing glasses) like vibe when he was younger Half-Thai Chinese + half-Hong Kong (Teochew) heritage ( according to Wikipedia) actor James Ma looks distinctly Thai Chinese to me, idk why. Something to do with the crease in his eyes, the dimples in his face when he smiles, and his lips suggests not-China/TW/HK ethnic Chinese to me. Singaporean actor Chen Shucheng (Teochew heritage) looks more familiar to me though. What traits does Ma Huateng have that look distinctly Teochew? Young Li Ka-shing look southern shifted than I expected due to his bigger eyes, mouth and nose area. Do you have other pictures of him in his youth? Have you seen anyone else who look like James Ma? I believe you are right regarding him look distinctly Sino-Thai. Do you see any southern shifted traits in him? Interesting, I feel some of my relatives look more northern shifted than Mr. Chen though.
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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jan 24, 2023 2:48:33 GMT
shirvanshah - Ma Huateng is an example of someone who looks very distinctly Teochew to me. I rarely see people in the US who look like him unless they're SEA Chinese of probable Teochew ancestry. I've met maybe one PRC origin person who may have been named after a county/village in the Chaoshan area who kind of resembles him. Li Ka-shing had an preteen/teenage Amos Yee (before he grew his hair out long and started wearing glasses) like vibe when he was younger What traits does Ma Huateng have that look distinctly Teochew? Young Li Ka-shing look southern shifted than I expected due to his bigger eyes, mouth and nose area. Do you have other pictures of him in his youth? Ma Huateng: arched eye brows higher up from his eyes, the specific shape of his monolid eyes, lower nose shape (small and "northern" ish, but the bridge shape is lower on the face than more "northern" CJK populations), relatively small lower face/jaw/chin area. Overall face shape is regionally distinct too (this might be more obvious from the front) Li Ka-shing actually looks more Amos Yee-like in this photo due to the buzz cut and probably being a little younger than in the other one I don't think he looked more "southern" when he was younger, "Mongoloid" Asians' eyes tend to become droppier as they age.
Half-Thai Chinese + half-Hong Kong (Teochew) heritage ( according to Wikipedia) actor James Ma looks distinctly Thai Chinese to me, idk why. Something to do with the crease in his eyes, the dimples in his face when he smiles, and his lips suggests not-China/TW/HK ethnic Chinese to me. Have you seen anyone else who look like James Ma? I believe you are right regarding him look distinctly Sino-Thai. Do you see any southern shifted traits in him? Southern-shifted =/= non-China Chinese looking. As I said in my other post, it's his specific eye shape, dimples, and atypical (for China Chinese) looking lips that make him look native Thai/ASEAN area mixed. The combination of his non-protruding cheekbones + forward protruding jaw also gives him an "exotic" vibe. I know SEA Chinese who aren't Chinese Thai who share certain features with him.
Singaporean actor Chen Shucheng (Teochew heritage) looks more familiar to me though. Interesting, I feel some of my relatives look more northern shifted than Mr. Chen though. China Chinese-passability doesn't fall along a North-South axis. Mr. Chen doesn't give me Peranakan vibes the way some Chinese Singaporeans do.
BONUS: While diaspora Filipino entertainer Eric Bauza has visible Chinese ancestry, that doesn't necessarily mean he can pass as China Chinese (although I think he could probably pass in southern Fujian well)
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uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Jan 24, 2023 10:20:08 GMT
Okarina, you are correct to point out that yes, it does seem that SEA Chinese differ to PRC South Chinese in features, but I do not know if this is due to genetic differences or due to some growth pattern. I think Thai/SEA Chinese like James Ma are mostly genetically fully Chinese, but their environment/upbringing changes their features via different foods/exercise/chemicals. Likewise, a similar effect is seen on Chinese Americans/Australians. Northern Chinese males that are born in the West for example, are 80%+ narrow/small faced and skinny with oval rounded faces, while Millenial/Gen Z North Chinese males in China are oftentimes squarefaced and less skinny, with more bone definition. For example, this Hengshui high school student's face, simply does not exist on same region ABCs, as the jaw area is too abrupt. Cantonese Australians/Americans likewise have more rounded bones compared to those born in China, who are oftentimes squarer.
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 24, 2023 14:21:18 GMT
What traits does Ma Huateng have that look distinctly Teochew? Young Li Ka-shing look southern shifted than I expected due to his bigger eyes, mouth and nose area. Do you have other pictures of him in his youth? Ma Huateng: arched eye brows higher up from his eyes, the specific shape of his monolid eyes, lower nose shape (small and "northern" ish, but the bridge shape is lower on the face than more "northern" CJK populations), relatively small lower face/jaw/chin area. Overall face shape is regionally distinct too (this might be more obvious from the front) Li Ka-shing actually looks more Amos Yee-like in this photo due to the buzz cut and probably being a little younger than in the other one I don't think he looked more "southern" when he was younger, "Mongoloid" Asians' eyes tend to become droppier as they age.
Have you seen anyone else who look like James Ma? I believe you are right regarding him look distinctly Sino-Thai. Do you see any southern shifted traits in him? Southern-shifted =/= non-China Chinese looking. As I said in my other post, it's his specific eye shape, dimples, and atypical (for China Chinese) looking lips that make him look native Thai/ASEAN area mixed. The combination of his non-protruding cheekbones + forward protruding jaw also gives him an "exotic" vibe. I know SEA Chinese who aren't Chinese Thai who share certain features with him.
Interesting, I feel some of my relatives look more northern shifted than Mr. Chen though. China Chinese-passability doesn't fall along a North-South axis. Mr. Chen doesn't give me Peranakan vibes the way some Chinese Singaporeans do.
BONUS: While diaspora Filipino entertainer Eric Bauza has visible Chinese ancestry, that doesn't necessarily mean he can pass as China Chinese (although I think he could probably pass in southern Fujian well) IMHO Ma Huateng can pass in Northern China fairly well, whereas Lee Ka-shing has a more typical southeastern Chinese appearance and cannot really pass in Northern China. His eyebrows are set very close to his eyes and he also has a rather high forehead, and those two features combined give him a rather distinct southern appearance rarely seen among Central and Northern Chinese. And regarding the difference between PRC Chinese and oversea Chinese diaspora, I feel that most of the times it comes down to make-up, style, and facial expressions rather than phenotype. In terms of phenotype alone I think all listed individuals here can pass in mainland China, it's just that their style and facial expressions are somewhat different from typical mainland Chinese.
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 24, 2023 14:52:32 GMT
Okarina, you are correct to point out that yes, it does seem that SEA Chinese differ to PRC South Chinese in features, but I do not know if this is due to genetic differences or due to some growth pattern. I think Thai/SEA Chinese like James Ma are mostly genetically fully Chinese, but their environment/upbringing changes their features via different foods/exercise/chemicals. Likewise, a similar effect is seen on Chinese Americans/Australians. Northern Chinese males that are born in the West for example, are 80%+ narrow/small faced and skinny with oval rounded faces, while Millenial/Gen Z North Chinese males in China are oftentimes squarefaced and less skinny, with more bone definition. For example, this Hengshui high school student's face, simply does not exist on same region ABCs, as the jaw area is too abrupt. Cantonese Australians/Americans likewise have more rounded bones compared to those born in China, who are oftentimes squarer. View AttachmentThat's because you haven't seen enough PRC South Chinese, really these SEA Chinese still look noticeably Chinese and noticeably Fujianese, and I can easily find more southern-shifted and more gracile-looking people from my GD, GX, and YN acquaintances. Oversea Chinese only represent a very small subset of their provinces of origin, and aren't the best example to use or cite when judging phenotype variations among mainland Chinese. There're many robust and squarish looking individuals in Northern China, I've seen such features quite commonly. And I'm not sure why you think mainland Cantonese are squarish, IMHO people from western GD and GX as well as the surrounding Tai-Kradai minorities are the most gracile people in all of China, oftentimes being very thin-boned. And they're also the most southern looking, often surpassing the southern-ness of SEA Chinese.
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uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Jan 24, 2023 20:09:30 GMT
Okarina, you are correct to point out that yes, it does seem that SEA Chinese differ to PRC South Chinese in features, but I do not know if this is due to genetic differences or due to some growth pattern. I think Thai/SEA Chinese like James Ma are mostly genetically fully Chinese, but their environment/upbringing changes their features via different foods/exercise/chemicals. Likewise, a similar effect is seen on Chinese Americans/Australians. Northern Chinese males that are born in the West for example, are 80%+ narrow/small faced and skinny with oval rounded faces, while Millenial/Gen Z North Chinese males in China are oftentimes squarefaced and less skinny, with more bone definition. For example, this Hengshui high school student's face, simply does not exist on same region ABCs, as the jaw area is too abrupt. Cantonese Australians/Americans likewise have more rounded bones compared to those born in China, who are oftentimes squarer. View AttachmentThat's because you haven't seen enough PRC South Chinese, really these SEA Chinese still look noticeably Chinese and noticeably Fujianese, and I can easily find more southern-shifted and more gracile-looking people from my GD, GX, and YN acquaintances. Oversea Chinese only represent a very small subset of their provinces of origin, and aren't the best example to use or cite when judging phenotype variations among mainland Chinese. There're many robust and squarish looking individuals in Northern China, I've seen such features quite commonly. And I'm not sure why you think mainland Cantonese are squarish, IMHO people from western GD and GX as well as the surrounding Tai-Kradai minorities are the most gracile people in all of China, oftentimes being very thin-boned. And they're also the most southern looking, often surpassing the southern-ness of SEA Chinese. I agree Ma Huateng looks generic enough to probably be pan Chinese and that SEA Chinese in his posts do pass in Mainland South China. I think all SEA Chinese/ABCs pass in China, since China is diverse and has a wide range of growth patterns, but not all Chinese people pass overseas, partially because of phenotype limitation but also partially due to different growth pattern/environment derived factors. I'm not saying South Chinese are particularly "ungracile" or "square". I'm saying all people in Mainland China, especially those born between 1980 and 2000, are prone to having this distinct squareness? Like their jaw is oftentimes similar to that Hengshui guy where the angle and lower jaw is very abrupt and not rounded, while their western born variants are more "rounded" in bones. This could even be observed from parents of ABCs born in China compared to actual ABCs. In China itself, that type of abrupt squareness on people born after 2005 is also decreasing. Also, Millenial/early Zoomer people in China are sometimes very large headed/huge skulled. Throw's highschool in America at one point had a ton of Beijing high school students and a very obvious difference them and similar region ABCs was that while height was similar, Beijing high school students were oftentimes hugefaced/huge headed for males, which isn't something you see on any ABCs. Some of them were very robust. However, with Mainland Chinese girls, they might be smallerfaced than ABC girls at times.
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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jan 24, 2023 22:27:49 GMT
That's because you haven't seen enough PRC South Chinese, really these SEA Chinese still look noticeably Chinese and noticeably Fujianese, and I can easily find more southern-shifted and more gracile-looking people from my GD, GX, and YN acquaintances. Oversea Chinese only represent a very small subset of their provinces of origin, and aren't the best example to use or cite when judging phenotype variations among mainland Chinese. There're many robust and squarish looking individuals in Northern China, I've seen such features quite commonly. I agree Ma Huateng looks generic enough to probably be pan Chinese and that SEA Chinese in his posts do pass in Mainland South China. I think all SEA Chinese/ABCs pass in China, since China is diverse and has a wide range of growth patterns, but not all Chinese people pass overseas, partially because of phenotype limitation but also partially due to different growth pattern/environment derived factors. With Ma Huateng the "gracile" SEA-like regional vibe is more obvious in older photos where he looks visibly younger. compared to I'm not saying visibly admixed SEA Chinese can't pass in Mainland China either, but I do think the native Indonesian-like vibe Anna En, Terence Then ("Hokkien beng" in the video), and Benjamin Kheng have (maybe it's harder to see with just one stock photo/video each) is slightly different from the Daic-shifted vibe Pearl River basin Chinese tend to have. Ben Kheng is almost certainly Peranakan even if Anna En and Terence Then might not be. James Ma having partial Thai Chinese ancestry doesn't rule out the possibility of him having actual Siamese/Mon/whatever ancestry. He doesn't look obviously not-Chinese the way fellow Thai national Sornnarin Tippoch or wrestler Dolgorsürengiin Serjbüdee do, but if I didn't know who he was I'd guess him as SEA Chinese before PRC, TW, or HK Chinese due to looking vaguely Thai.
How well do Thaksin Shinawatra and his daughter pass in Guangdong?
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uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Jan 24, 2023 22:56:23 GMT
I think in theory they should pass in Guangdong and Fujian but like we said, we don't know if certain differences are genetic or due to certain lifestyle factors
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 25, 2023 2:29:11 GMT
That's because you haven't seen enough PRC South Chinese, really these SEA Chinese still look noticeably Chinese and noticeably Fujianese, and I can easily find more southern-shifted and more gracile-looking people from my GD, GX, and YN acquaintances. Oversea Chinese only represent a very small subset of their provinces of origin, and aren't the best example to use or cite when judging phenotype variations among mainland Chinese. There're many robust and squarish looking individuals in Northern China, I've seen such features quite commonly. And I'm not sure why you think mainland Cantonese are squarish, IMHO people from western GD and GX as well as the surrounding Tai-Kradai minorities are the most gracile people in all of China, oftentimes being very thin-boned. And they're also the most southern looking, often surpassing the southern-ness of SEA Chinese. I agree Ma Huateng looks generic enough to probably be pan Chinese and that SEA Chinese in his posts do pass in Mainland South China. I think all SEA Chinese/ABCs pass in China, since China is diverse and has a wide range of growth patterns, but not all Chinese people pass overseas, partially because of phenotype limitation but also partially due to different growth pattern/environment derived factors. I'm not saying South Chinese are particularly "ungracile" or "square". I'm saying all people in Mainland China, especially those born between 1980 and 2000, are prone to having this distinct squareness? Like their jaw is oftentimes similar to that Hengshui guy where the angle and lower jaw is very abrupt and not rounded, while their western born variants are more "rounded" in bones. This could even be observed from parents of ABCs born in China compared to actual ABCs. In China itself, that type of abrupt squareness on people born after 2005 is also decreasing. Also, Millenial/early Zoomer people in China are sometimes very large headed/huge skulled. Throw's highschool in America at one point had a ton of Beijing high school students and a very obvious difference them and similar region ABCs was that while height was similar, Beijing high school students were oftentimes hugefaced/huge headed for males, which isn't something you see on any ABCs. Some of them were very robust. However, with Mainland Chinese girls, they might be smallerfaced than ABC girls at times. A lot of the times the perceived differences between mainland Chinese and oversea Chinese come from differences in fashion, styles, make-up, and facial expressions rather than actual phenotype differences. Mainland Chinese students especially guys tend to have this very old-fashioned bowl-cut which tends to exaggerate their facial width, and combined with a high percentage of myopic students wearing thick glasses this tends to create a rather stark visual difference between them and oversea Chinese which tend to have better hairstyles and more often than not wear contact lenses rather than glasses. However if the two are having the same style than the differences would be much smaller almost negligible. And there's also the issue of weight. Mainland Chinese culture tends to put more pressure on women to stay in shape and much less aesthetic pressure on men, hence the reason why there're more overweight men than women in China; and for overseas Chinese I feel it's exactly the opposite, the aesthetic pressure on men is higher than that on women. Hence the reason why you see more fit small-faced ABC guys compared to mainland Chinese guys, but for women it's the opposite. And Beijing is a typical example of how weight influences phenotype. According to statistics Beijing ranks the top among Chinese cities in terms of obesity, with nearly 25% of Beijingers being either overweight or obese. If you've ever been to Beijing you'd surely notice that the breakfast in Beijing is very high in carbs and in sugar, for instance fried doughs the size of my small arm, or sweet deep-fried pancakes twice the width of my face, not to mention the various types of steamed buns, noodles, cakes, animal organs cooked in deep oil, etc. No other place in China has as heavy a breakfast as Beijing. I've watched many online streaming from different parts of China that's why I'm quite accustomed to the phenotype differences among Chinese, but the food differences are equally striking. I remember I've watched two ethnic Ayni / Hani girls from Yunnan having breakfast and their version of fried dough was like only 1/3 to maybe 1/4 the size of the one in Beijing, and when they ate it they dipped it in a bowl of chili sauce as opposed to dipping it in soy milk. And they also drank a type of vermicelli soup with vegetables. And I've watched two ethnic Hmong / Miao girls from Guangxi having breakfast and their breakfast was a small bowl of tea porridge or tea congee. That's how the South Chinese stay in shape. Really when talking about Chinese food being heathier than western food one must exclude Beijing food from the list cause that's definitely not the case.
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 25, 2023 2:43:23 GMT
I agree Ma Huateng looks generic enough to probably be pan Chinese and that SEA Chinese in his posts do pass in Mainland South China. I think all SEA Chinese/ABCs pass in China, since China is diverse and has a wide range of growth patterns, but not all Chinese people pass overseas, partially because of phenotype limitation but also partially due to different growth pattern/environment derived factors. With Ma Huateng the "gracile" SEA-like regional vibe is more obvious in older photos where he looks visibly younger. compared to I'm not saying visibly admixed SEA Chinese can't pass in Mainland China either, but I do think the native Indonesian-like vibe Anna En, Terence Then ("Hokkien beng" in the video), and Benjamin Kheng have (maybe it's harder to see with just one stock photo/video each) is slightly different from the Daic-shifted vibe Pearl River basin Chinese tend to have. Ben Kheng is almost certainly Peranakan even if Anna En and Terence Then might not be. James Ma having partial Thai Chinese ancestry doesn't rule out the possibility of him having actual Siamese/Mon/whatever ancestry. He doesn't look obviously not-Chinese the way fellow Thai national Sornnarin Tippoch or wrestler Dolgorsürengiin Serjbüdee do, but if I didn't know who he was I'd guess him as SEA Chinese before PRC, TW, or HK Chinese due to looking vaguely Thai.
How well do Thaksin Shinawatra and his daughter pass in Guangdong? Ma Huateng does not look SE Asian at all, neither when he was younger nor now. He has a typical Sinid Central Chinese phenotype. Even fellow Teochewese Lee Ka-shing passes better in SE Asia than he does. James Ma is slightly Thai influenced but he still looks Chinese, I think he can pass in Guangdong, Fujian, or perhaps even in the Jiangzhe region with relative ease. Both Thaksin Shinawatra and his daughter can pass in Guangdong relatively well, and Thaksin himself may pass in regions further north like Hunan, Hubei, or Sichuan. In fact if you show me their picture without mentioning they're Thai then Thai wouldn't even be my first guess, I would have probably guessed them as some sort of Southern Chinese. I think typical Thai appearance is exemplified by the Muay Thai legend Buakaw Banchamek and his student Superbon Banchamek. I would have never guessed them as anything other than Thai or Khmer.
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uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Jan 25, 2023 2:47:59 GMT
I agree Ma Huateng looks generic enough to probably be pan Chinese and that SEA Chinese in his posts do pass in Mainland South China. I think all SEA Chinese/ABCs pass in China, since China is diverse and has a wide range of growth patterns, but not all Chinese people pass overseas, partially because of phenotype limitation but also partially due to different growth pattern/environment derived factors. I'm not saying South Chinese are particularly "ungracile" or "square". I'm saying all people in Mainland China, especially those born between 1980 and 2000, are prone to having this distinct squareness? Like their jaw is oftentimes similar to that Hengshui guy where the angle and lower jaw is very abrupt and not rounded, while their western born variants are more "rounded" in bones. This could even be observed from parents of ABCs born in China compared to actual ABCs. In China itself, that type of abrupt squareness on people born after 2005 is also decreasing. Also, Millenial/early Zoomer people in China are sometimes very large headed/huge skulled. Throw's highschool in America at one point had a ton of Beijing high school students and a very obvious difference them and similar region ABCs was that while height was similar, Beijing high school students were oftentimes hugefaced/huge headed for males, which isn't something you see on any ABCs. Some of them were very robust. However, with Mainland Chinese girls, they might be smallerfaced than ABC girls at times. A lot of the times the perceived differences between mainland Chinese and oversea Chinese come from differences in fashion, styles, make-up, and facial expressions rather than actual phenotype differences. Mainland Chinese students especially guys tend to have this very old-fashioned bowl-cut which tends to exaggerate their facial width, and combined with a high percentage of myopic students wearing thick glasses this tends to create a rather stark visual difference between them and oversea Chinese which tend to have better hairstyles and more often than not wear contact lenses rather than glasses. However if the two are having the same style than the differences would be much smaller almost negligible. And there's also the issue of weight. Mainland Chinese culture tends to put more pressure on women to stay in shape and much less aesthetic pressure on men, hence the reason why there're more overweight men than women in China; and for overseas Chinese I feel it's exactly the opposite, the aesthetic pressure on men is higher than that on women. Hence the reason why you see more fit small-faced ABC guys compared to mainland Chinese guys, but for women it's the opposite. And Beijing is a typical example of how weight influences phenotype. According to statistics Beijing ranks the top among Chinese cities in terms of obesity, with nearly 25% of Beijingers being either overweight or obese. If you've ever been to Beijing you'd surely notice that the breakfast in Beijing is very high in carbs and in sugar, for instance fried doughs the size of my small arm, or sweet deep-fried pancakes twice the width of my face, not to mention the various types of steamed buns, noodles, cakes, animal organs cooked in deep oil, etc. No other place in China has as heavy a breakfast as Beijing. I've watched many online streaming from different parts of China that's why I'm quite accustomed to the phenotype differences among Chinese, but the food differences are equally striking. I remember I've watched two ethnic Ayni / Hani girls from Yunnan having breakfast and their version of fried dough was like only 1/3 to maybe 1/4 the size of the one in Beijing, and when they ate it they dipped it in a bowl of chili sauce as opposed to dipping it in soy milk. And they also drank a type of vermicelli soup with vegetables. And I've watched two ethnic Hmong / Miao girls from Guangxi having breakfast and their breakfast was a small bowl of tea porridge or tea congee. That's how the South Chinese stay in shape. Really when talking about Chinese food being heathier than western food one must exclude Beijing food from the list cause that's definitely not the case. With the exception of southern minorities in China, I would say that all Chinese food is unhealthy and worse in nutrition than western food. In the West it is true that McDonalds diet people are obese, but middle class White people definitely eat healthier than average Chinese people. They eat a lot of cold meats, salads and many are very nutrition/diet obsessed compared to Chinese people. Even unhealthier options like burgers aren't even that bad compared to sodium oil packed baozi. Also Chinese people eat a ton of weird snacks, like Latiao, which is worse than Chocolate imo for health. For bulk Chinese people today, their diet is this oily fatty mess packed with sodium and carbs. Anecdotally speaking, after eating a large Chinese meal, I feel tired and sluggish. But after eating a burger and a sandwich, I feel more mobile and energetic.
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uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Jan 25, 2023 2:55:36 GMT
I think part of the reason for ABC girls being bigfaced compared to PRC zoomer girls could be due to feeding/exercise differences, but for the most part I have not found an explanation other than the fact that growth pattern between ABCs and Chinese Millenials/Zoomers differ.
I think nonfat Beijing student types still differ to Abcs. Even the skinnier Beijing HS males are oftentimes very large skulled with projecting bones while ABCs lack bone definition and features look rounded/smoothed out.
I sort of also remember large faced Guangzhou millenial males at times (they also oftentimes had this chiseled facial structure) and I think Canto ABCs are also smaller faced than they are, but yeah for girls it is reversed.
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