mnopsc1b
•
Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
|
Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 14, 2023 15:54:56 GMT
shirvanshah "Northern" or "Southern" are vague terms in the context of Asia, as there is no strict criteria dictating which features belong to which direction. Some Mongolians look extremely Hunanese for example. I think you and your siblings just look like what you would typically expect given your admixtures. I've talked about Mittlesinid above, now I will cover the Nordsinid and the Sudsinid morphs. 1. humanphenotypes.net/Chukiangid.html The Sudsinid morph to be honest, does look distinct Cantonese, albeit not the most "conventionally attractive" drawn version. Cantonese people range in looks and the Chukiangid is definitely one portion of what some of them look like, but I do agree that the morph isn't very appealing (Irl Cantonese people with similar features typically have better harmony than the morph). I would take the types mentioned on humanphenotypes.net with a grain of salt cause this site is neither accurate nor professional. It was built by amateurs with no professional training in anthropology, and the pictures they used to make these composite photos came from dubious sources, with many being provided by other amateurs or by people with a certain agenda in mind. I heard that the Chinese photos on this site were provided by a guy named "十字苗刀", and this guy is notorious on Zhihu for being a racist hater of Southern Chinese, no wonder why the Chukiangid photos are such unappealing. Aside from being unappealing or unattractive, the photos they provided for the Chukiangid type are not accurate either. While I don't deny that some Cantonese particularly some metropolitan Cantonese can have such a type (likely due to admixtures with other groups), it's definitely not a typical or distinct Cantonese type. I think this type is much more commonly found among Fujianese and Jiangxi people, and can also be found in Hunan and Hubei to some extent, and Chukiang or Zhujiang is a misnomer in this case cause none of those regions covers or even touches the Zhujiang river. A more typical or distinct Cantonese type is exemplified by the 3 individuals that I listed above, having more overlaps with Annamid and Shanid types, and with some other SE Asian types as well.
|
|
|
mnopsc1b
•
Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
|
Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 14, 2023 16:19:31 GMT
What even is a Mittlesinid? I think I've retired the usage of that term tbh. The morph on Humanphenotypes regarding Mittlesinid just looks like they got a bunch of Linkedin Chinese programmers and meshed them together. Regional Jiangsu phenotypes are also not exactly the same as say a Sichuan one. @mnops I don't really believe in attractiveness anymore. It seems like when people are raised in healthy environments and styled alright, they all look the same range. Cantonese aren't better looking or worse looking than any other human population. It all comes down to subjectivity and perceived attractiveness via beauty standards (some societies have differing standards to others). Then you should also retire the usage of terms like Sudsinid or Chukiangid cause there're multiple types in Lingnan from east to west and Chukiangid isn't even the most typical one, it's more commonly found among Fujianese and Jiangxi people than among Cantonese. I agree with your opinion that Cantonese aren't better or worse looking than any other Chinese or human population, yet despite that there're still a lot of racist remarks and insults against Cantonese on Chinese forums like Tieba and Zhihu, perhaps you should post your comment to those ignorant people and educate them. It's true that what is considered attractive differs from region to region and society to society, but still I think there're some fundamental commonalities when it comes to attractiveness, particularly pertaining to facial features and body proportions.
|
|
|
|
Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jan 14, 2023 17:31:09 GMT
Mandarin Corner looks "stereotypically Chinese" in ways that shirvanshah's sister does not. She has this "pan-southern China" pheno of relatively wide-set and not-small eyes that are also relatively "long" and tapered. Could be an "Ancient Sinitic" morph that combined with the She-like ancestry present among Han from the general Jiangxi/Fujian/eastern Guangdong region to produce that regional pheno. shirvanshah's sister has too much of a SEA vibe in her lower face despite also having very light skin and "closed-set" eyes. The outdoors education woman being interviewed in this video has a more pan-Southern China look face that also more closely resembles the "Sudsinid" morph in how short, wide, and compact the face is. If I had to guess I'd say she's from Guangdong or Fujian but could probably pass in most the other rice-growing provinces too. How about my younger bro? Does he look more northern-shifted than me and my sister? I wonder if the SEA vibe that you see is pseudo or comes from our Chinese ancestry because I am now thinking that any probable Siamese admix we might have is much less than what I used to think after looking at my maternal side- most who still have Southern Chinese looks. Want to do a 23andme when I go to the US. Genotype =/= phenotype. SEA Chinese don’t need that much non-Chinese ancestry to look different from South China Han. Chinese Malaysians/Singaporeans and Taiwanese are good examples of this- genetically they’re basically indistinguishable but they collectively have enough non-Chinese ancestors (whether Malay/ISEA + South Asian or yuanzhumin + Euro) for different phenotypal traits to be introduced into the population. For your “Japanese” looking relative’s group photo, the black top and red top women have a distinctly Siamese/Indianized MSEA nose shape that doesn’t exist among China Chinese.
It's true that Mandarin Corner looks stereotypically Chinese, but I wouldn't consider her look to be pan Southern Chinese but rather pan Chinese. I think she can pass in Northern China as well. However I don't think she looks typical in Guangdong not even Eastern Guangdong. In Southern China this type of heavily (robust) Mittelsinid look is mostly associated with people from Jiangxi and Hunan, and also Fujianese to a lesser extent. And for shirvanshah's sister, if you take Mandarin Corner's type and add a slight Siamese vibe to the lower face, you'll get her sister's type. I still think they have a rather big overlap especially pertaining to the eye region and the general facial contour. It's strange that you consider the interviewed woman in the video to be a pan-Southern Chinese type similar to Mandarin Corner, despite the two clearly have a different phenotype. The woman being interviewed clearly has a smaller and more compact face with lower cheekbones than Mandarin Corner, and their eye region is also different, with the interviewed woman having larger and less slantier eyes. And this also proves that your Mandarin Chinese level is quite low, cause the woman mentioned in the beginning that she's from Guangxi, more specifically from the Yangshuo county in Guilin. Like I said, I wouldn't consider her type to be pan-Southern Chinese, but rather a more regional specific type typical to the western part of Lingnan. Apart from maybe neighboring Guangdong, Guizhou, Yunnan, and the southwestern part of Hunan bordering Guangxi, I don't think she can easily pass in other regions of China. I only watched a little bit of the first 5-6 minutes of the interview. Didn’t catch where the interviewee said where she’s from, so I’m glad my instincts were correct on her being from thw South China Sea region but not a super Daic-shifted area (Guilin is SW Mandarin speaking so less SEA-shifted genetically than the Yue speaking areas). Still think she could pass in Jiangxi, Guangdong and probably Fujian although not as typical. Mandarin Corner doesn’t look pan-Chinese to me because I don’t think she passes in the north. Maybe she could pass in the northwest but I’d ask throway.
|
|
|
throway2
•
Fengshui Professional
Posts: 206
Likes: 28
Ethnic Heritage: hmongid
Gender Identity: austronesian
|
Post by throway2 on Jan 14, 2023 18:48:44 GMT
Mandarin Corner doesn’t look pan-Chinese to me because I don’t think she passes in the north. Maybe she could pass in the northwest but I’d ask throway. I think there are some amount of central Hebei/native Beijing Han that can look a bit like her, and maybe also southern-shifted northwest/zhongyuan han imo (eg. southern shaanxi, henan) imgur.com/a/48TZGJIGroup of central Hebei girls as an example
|
|
|
throway2
•
Fengshui Professional
Posts: 206
Likes: 28
Ethnic Heritage: hmongid
Gender Identity: austronesian
|
Post by throway2 on Jan 14, 2023 19:02:59 GMT
I think a lot of dynamics in East Asia should not really be analyzed as "north" vs. "south", but rather through the lens of the following: 1) Emergence of agrarian cultures in upper Yellow River (led to Tibeto-Burmans/Sinitic millet farmers), lower Yellow River/Yangtze delta (led to proto/para-Austronesian millet/rice mixed farmers), west Liao river (initially millet farmers who ended up dispersed into pastoralism) 2) Rapid expansion of aforementioned cultures and interactions with local groups living in more "peripheral" areas
The whole "north" vs "south" thing in China can be summarized as a dynamic interaction between upper Yellow River descendants, lower Yellow River/Yangtze delta descendants, and the descendants of local southern hunter-gatherers/non-expansionist rice farmers
|
|
|
throway2
•
Fengshui Professional
Posts: 206
Likes: 28
Ethnic Heritage: hmongid
Gender Identity: austronesian
|
Post by throway2 on Jan 14, 2023 19:20:43 GMT
It's true that Mandarin Corner looks stereotypically Chinese, but I wouldn't consider her look to be pan Southern Chinese but rather pan Chinese. I think she can pass in Northern China as well. However I don't think she looks typical in Guangdong not even Eastern Guangdong. In Southern China this type of heavily (robust) Mittelsinid look is mostly associated with people from Jiangxi and Hunan, and also Fujianese to a lesser extent. And for shirvanshah's sister, if you take Mandarin Corner's type and add a slight Siamese vibe to the lower face, you'll get her sister's type. I still think they have a rather big overlap especially pertaining to the eye region and the general facial contour. It's strange that you consider the interviewed woman in the video to be a pan-Southern Chinese type similar to Mandarin Corner, despite the two clearly have a different phenotype. The woman being interviewed clearly has a smaller and more compact face with lower cheekbones than Mandarin Corner, and their eye region is also different, with the interviewed woman having larger and less slantier eyes. And this also proves that your Mandarin Chinese level is quite low, cause the woman mentioned in the beginning that she's from Guangxi, more specifically from the Yangshuo county in Guilin. Like I said, I wouldn't consider her type to be pan-Southern Chinese, but rather a more regional specific type typical to the western part of Lingnan. Apart from maybe neighboring Guangdong, Guizhou, Yunnan, and the southwestern part of Hunan bordering Guangxi, I don't think she can easily pass in other regions of China. People who are not familiar with Southern Chinese phenotypes would often consider Southern China south of the Yangtse as a unified whole but the truth is much more complicated than that. There're some quite significant differences in terms of culture, language, and appearance among different Southern Chinese provinces, and in the case of Guangdong such differences exist even among the three ethnolinguistic groups (Cantonese, Hakka, and Teochew) living in the same province. And just like Northern China, there exists a contrast between Eastern Southern China and Western Southern China. The interviewed woman can pass in southern Shaanxi/Gansu imo (better than Mandarin corner since she (interviewed) looks more Hmong). Esp. in the image still at 1:29 or so
|
|
|
|
Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jan 14, 2023 20:06:03 GMT
Mandarin Corner doesn’t look pan-Chinese to me because I don’t think she passes in the north. Maybe she could pass in the northwest but I’d ask throway. I think there are some amount of central Hebei/native Beijing Han that can look a bit like her, and maybe also southern-shifted northwest/zhongyuan han imo (eg. southern shaanxi, henan) imgur.com/a/48TZGJIGroup of central Hebei girls as an example The Hebei schoolgirls don't have the Hmong-ish vibe Mandarin Corner has. Her laterally protruding cheekbones + vaguely SEA-ish nose and mouth make a difference. So do the larger eyes that occupy a larger portion of her face compared to the Hebei students, who all have proportionally smaller eye openings/sockets. She does vaguely resemble some of the Qin terracotta warriors but that specific face morph isn't common among modern-day N Han. Agree that the interviewee looks vaguely NW Chinese in the gondola photo with her husband.
|
|
|
mnopsc1b
•
Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
|
Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 14, 2023 20:24:36 GMT
It's true that Mandarin Corner looks stereotypically Chinese, but I wouldn't consider her look to be pan Southern Chinese but rather pan Chinese. I think she can pass in Northern China as well. However I don't think she looks typical in Guangdong not even Eastern Guangdong. In Southern China this type of heavily (robust) Mittelsinid look is mostly associated with people from Jiangxi and Hunan, and also Fujianese to a lesser extent. And for shirvanshah's sister, if you take Mandarin Corner's type and add a slight Siamese vibe to the lower face, you'll get her sister's type. I still think they have a rather big overlap especially pertaining to the eye region and the general facial contour. It's strange that you consider the interviewed woman in the video to be a pan-Southern Chinese type similar to Mandarin Corner, despite the two clearly have a different phenotype. The woman being interviewed clearly has a smaller and more compact face with lower cheekbones than Mandarin Corner, and their eye region is also different, with the interviewed woman having larger and less slantier eyes. And this also proves that your Mandarin Chinese level is quite low, cause the woman mentioned in the beginning that she's from Guangxi, more specifically from the Yangshuo county in Guilin. Like I said, I wouldn't consider her type to be pan-Southern Chinese, but rather a more regional specific type typical to the western part of Lingnan. Apart from maybe neighboring Guangdong, Guizhou, Yunnan, and the southwestern part of Hunan bordering Guangxi, I don't think she can easily pass in other regions of China. I only watched a little bit of the first 5-6 minutes of the interview. Didn’t catch where the interviewee said where she’s from, so I’m glad my instincts were correct on her being from thw South China Sea region but not a super Daic-shifted area (Guilin is SW Mandarin speaking so less SEA-shifted genetically than the Yue speaking areas). Still think she could pass in Jiangxi, Guangdong and probably Fujian although not as typical. Mandarin Corner doesn’t look pan-Chinese to me because I don’t think she passes in the north. Maybe she could pass in the northwest but I’d ask throway. She mentioned in the very beginning (around 1:42) that she's from Yangshuo Guilin, not 5-6 minutes into the interview. According to this chart from 23Mofang, Guilin SW Mandarin speakers have around 12.8% Zhuang-Dai genome, which is only lower than Cantonese but higher than all other Sinitic subgroups, hence it's wrong to say that they aren't Daic-shifted. The Daic-like features of the interviewed woman are quite visible, namingly a somewhat darker complexion, a smaller and more compact face, and larger eyes. I think such features are what separating people in Western Guangdong and Guangxi from the more Mittelsinid pan Chinese types in Fujian, Jiangxi, Hunan, and Eastern Guangdong. Regarding Mandarin Corner, she can definitely pass in Northern China, especially in the eastern part of Northern China around Hebei, Beijing, Shandong, and Henan. I would even say that she might be able to pass as a atypical Korean or Japanese type.
|
|
|
mnopsc1b
•
Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
|
Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 14, 2023 20:32:49 GMT
Mandarin Corner doesn’t look pan-Chinese to me because I don’t think she passes in the north. Maybe she could pass in the northwest but I’d ask throway. I think there are some amount of central Hebei/native Beijing Han that can look a bit like her, and maybe also southern-shifted northwest/zhongyuan han imo (eg. southern shaanxi, henan) imgur.com/a/48TZGJIGroup of central Hebei girls as an example Agreed, she can definitely pass in Northern China. As a former resident of Beijing with relatives from Hebei I can confirm that her type seems familiar. I think her type is best described as a pan Eastern China phenotype, perhaps it was one of the core phenotypes of the Ancient Sinitic people.
|
|
|
mnopsc1b
•
Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
|
Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 14, 2023 20:40:40 GMT
It's true that Mandarin Corner looks stereotypically Chinese, but I wouldn't consider her look to be pan Southern Chinese but rather pan Chinese. I think she can pass in Northern China as well. However I don't think she looks typical in Guangdong not even Eastern Guangdong. In Southern China this type of heavily (robust) Mittelsinid look is mostly associated with people from Jiangxi and Hunan, and also Fujianese to a lesser extent. And for shirvanshah's sister, if you take Mandarin Corner's type and add a slight Siamese vibe to the lower face, you'll get her sister's type. I still think they have a rather big overlap especially pertaining to the eye region and the general facial contour. It's strange that you consider the interviewed woman in the video to be a pan-Southern Chinese type similar to Mandarin Corner, despite the two clearly have a different phenotype. The woman being interviewed clearly has a smaller and more compact face with lower cheekbones than Mandarin Corner, and their eye region is also different, with the interviewed woman having larger and less slantier eyes. And this also proves that your Mandarin Chinese level is quite low, cause the woman mentioned in the beginning that she's from Guangxi, more specifically from the Yangshuo county in Guilin. Like I said, I wouldn't consider her type to be pan-Southern Chinese, but rather a more regional specific type typical to the western part of Lingnan. Apart from maybe neighboring Guangdong, Guizhou, Yunnan, and the southwestern part of Hunan bordering Guangxi, I don't think she can easily pass in other regions of China. People who are not familiar with Southern Chinese phenotypes would often consider Southern China south of the Yangtse as a unified whole but the truth is much more complicated than that. There're some quite significant differences in terms of culture, language, and appearance among different Southern Chinese provinces, and in the case of Guangdong such differences exist even among the three ethnolinguistic groups (Cantonese, Hakka, and Teochew) living in the same province. And just like Northern China, there exists a contrast between Eastern Southern China and Western Southern China. The interviewed woman can pass in southern Shaanxi/Gansu imo (better than Mandarin corner since she (interviewed) looks more Hmong). Esp. in the image still at 1:29 or so Can't really say if the interviewed woman is similar to NW Chinese or not cause I'm not that familiar with NW Chinese types, but she indeed gives me a sort of western-shifted Shanid-like vibe. And many of my GX friends and acquaintances have a similar vibe, which is what makes them different from Eastern Southern Chinese. Perhaps it has something to do with their underlying Austroasiatic or Hoabinhian influences. And agreed that the interviewed woman would pass better as Hmong or even better as a Tai-Kradai minority than Mandarin Corner. I think Mandarin Corner's type is more commonly found in Central/Eastern China or the core Sinitic region and not in the minority regions of the SW.
|
|
|
|
Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jan 14, 2023 20:45:41 GMT
I only watched a little bit of the first 5-6 minutes of the interview. Didn’t catch where the interviewee said where she’s from, so I’m glad my instincts were correct on her being from thw South China Sea region but not a super Daic-shifted area (Guilin is SW Mandarin speaking so less SEA-shifted genetically than the Yue speaking areas). Still think she could pass in Jiangxi, Guangdong and probably Fujian although not as typical. Mandarin Corner doesn’t look pan-Chinese to me because I don’t think she passes in the north. Maybe she could pass in the northwest but I’d ask throway. She mentioned in the very beginning (around 1:42) that she's from Yangshuo Guilin, not 5-6 minutes into the interview. Regarding Mandarin Corner, she can definitely pass in Northern China, especially in the eastern part of Northern China around Hebei, Beijing, Shandong, and Henan. I would even say that she might be able to pass as a atypical Korean or Japanese type. I didn't watch the whole 5-6 minutes, only bits and pieces. I still think there's something about Mandarin Corner's nose/mouth/lower face region that looks off for Northern China- something about her nose bridge when viewed from the side just screams Guangdong/south of the Yangtze to me. Although you're right in that she can superficially pass in coastal Northern China.
|
|
|
mnopsc1b
•
Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
|
Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 14, 2023 20:50:42 GMT
She mentioned in the very beginning (around 1:42) that she's from Yangshuo Guilin, not 5-6 minutes into the interview. Regarding Mandarin Corner, she can definitely pass in Northern China, especially in the eastern part of Northern China around Hebei, Beijing, Shandong, and Henan. I would even say that she might be able to pass as a atypical Korean or Japanese type. I didn't watch the whole 5-6 minutes, only bits and pieces. I still think there's something about Mandarin Corner's nose/mouth/lower face region that looks off for Northern China- something about her nose bridge when viewed from the side just screams Guangdong/south of the Yangtze to me. Although you're right in that she can superficially pass in coastal Northern China. Mandarin Corner's type is perhaps not the most typical type in Northern China but she can definitely still pass there. And her features don't scream Guangdong or Guangxi to me either, like I said her type is most commonly found in Central/Eastern China, a pan Eastern Chinese type. The presence of her type in Jiangxi and Fujian is likely directly related to the southward migrations of the Ancient Sinitic people from the eastern parts of Northern China.
|
|
|
shirvanshah
•
Tea Botany Expert
Posts: 134
Likes: 29
Gender Identity: Ace
|
Post by shirvanshah on Jan 15, 2023 9:08:22 GMT
How about my younger bro? Does he look more northern-shifted than me and my sister? I wonder if the SEA vibe that you see is pseudo or comes from our Chinese ancestry because I am now thinking that any probable Siamese admix we might have is much less than what I used to think after looking at my maternal side- most who still have Southern Chinese looks. Want to do a 23andme when I go to the US. Genotype =/= phenotype. SEA Chinese don’t need that much non-Chinese ancestry to look different from South China Han. Chinese Malaysians/Singaporeans and Taiwanese are good examples of this- genetically they’re basically indistinguishable but they collectively have enough non-Chinese ancestors (whether Malay/ISEA + South Asian or yuanzhumin + Euro) for different phenotypal traits to be introduced into the population. For your “Japanese” looking relative’s group photo, the black top and red top women have a distinctly Siamese/Indianized MSEA nose shape that doesn’t exist among China Chinese. Agreed with you. Btw I should have use the word "possible" instead of "probable" for any potential Siamese admixture. But I wonder if the some of the SEA vibes you detected in some SEA Chinese diaspora including me came from the Baiyue ancestry in Southern Chinese rather than recent SE Asian admixture? Considering how most Southern Chinese are a mix of Northern Han settlers and the indigenous tribes of that area. Btw does my younger brother look more northern-shifted than me and my sister? I see. Can you elaborate on how the nose shape looks different from Chinese in China? Do you see any other southern traits in the group photo? Btw regarding them looking "Japanese", it might be due to the fact that my relatives love Japan and try to emulate the fashion, thus making others think they look "Japanese". Or that they were mistaken as locals when traveling there, likely due to their fashion style. I do noticed though that many mainland Chinese tourists in Thailand do look different phenotypically from Chinese Thais though even many of the Southern Chinese ones. Most Chinese Thais are infatuated and interested about Japan and Korea, but very rarely feeling any bond or interest towards China, their ancestral homeland, sadly. I don't know why, but its probably due to Siamese/Thai government being pro-Japan and pro-West while being anti-communism for most of the 20th and 21st century and thus influencing the populace to think in that way. And the fact that Japanese and Korean culture and soft power is very influential in Thailand and many other SE Asian countries. To me, its sad how most Chinese Thais have little interest and connection towards mainland China. For example, quite a long time ago, one of my cousins was talking about how he wants to learn Japanese because he thinks its cool and useful. I asked him if he is also wants to learn Mandarin, and he makes a rather bored unimpressed face and says he is not interested in it and don't see the point. I noticed this same apathetic and rather self hating attitude in many other younger Chinese Thais as well towards anything Chinese related which is unfortunate. I feel many are not even interested in Taiwan, HK, Singapore or any Chinese majority places unlike Japan, Korea and the West which they loved and admired. I think out of all the oversea Chinese descendants, Sino-Thais are the least Chinese culturally and linguistically and are probably regarded as foreigners by Chinese people. I feel even Chinese Americans or other Western Chinese diaspora are more "Chinese" than Sino-Thais. Apologies for the off topic, but I feel its very unfortunate. I think I'm one of the very few younger Chinese Thais who is interested in becoming fluent/proficient in Mandarin as my third language (would be nice if I can also learn Hainanese and Teochew) and learning more about my roots.
|
|
|
uisashi
•
Tea Botany Expert
Posts: 118
Likes: 24
|
Post by uisashi on Jan 15, 2023 11:29:13 GMT
ABCs from America and Australia are heavily weeb/kweeb with probs 50% of the males being anime addicts. Anime somehow is just naturally relatable to most western Asians.
Wait how Chinese are Thai-Chinese? Like on average can they speak Chinese or have an understanding of their heritage?
|
|
|
shirvanshah
•
Tea Botany Expert
Posts: 134
Likes: 29
Gender Identity: Ace
|
Post by shirvanshah on Jan 15, 2023 12:48:29 GMT
ABCs from America and Australia are heavily weeb/kweeb with probs 50% of the males being anime addicts. Anime somehow is just naturally relatable to most western Asians. Wait how Chinese are Thai-Chinese? Like on average can they speak Chinese or have an understanding of their heritage? Same thing with Chinese Thais. A lot love Japanese anime and Korean stuff. Many especially the upper and higher middle class Sino-Thais are also proficient in English, even Japanese and to lesser extent, Korean as their families often encourage them to go study for their undergraduate or masters in the West or Japan. Very little especially those who are 40s and younger onwards. Most younger generations can't speak/understand or their ancestral languages (Hainanese, Teochew, Hokkien, etc) at all. It's mainly the older generations can speak their mother tongue or Mandarin, most of who are now in their late 70s to 80 upwards, which is before the closing of Chinese schools by the Siamese government at the time. But there are also exceptions such as those of my grandma, who despite being in her 80s can only speak Thai as her family is very assimilated and comes from a much earlier wave of Chinese migrants. And then there are many elderly who understand and speak only their ancestral languages/dialects but don't know any Mandarin. Chinese-Thais only speak Thai among themselves especially the my dad generation onwards. Most have Thai names, are Theravada Buddhists, eat mostly Thai food, use fork and spoon. Many also identify only as Thai especially the younger generations. There are still some who still perform ancestor worship and celebrate holidays such as Chinese New Year and giving red envelope even if they can't speak Chinese and only practiced Thai culture/customs. I have a feeling that in the next generation, ethnic Chinese will disappear as a distinct ethnicity in Thailand as all have become totally Siamized/Thaified culturally, linguistically and all aspects of Chinese culture including the holidays will be gone as well. It's possible that Chinese Indonesians and maybe Chinese Pinoys/Tsinoys might still be Chinese than us even if most of them don't speak Chinese and are pretty assimilated.
|
|
|