throway2
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Fengshui Professional
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Ethnic Heritage: hmongid
Gender Identity: austronesian
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Post by throway2 on Jan 8, 2023 20:22:54 GMT
Is there something similar about these chanting styles?
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 8, 2023 21:46:16 GMT
I think people shouldn't exaggerate or overextend the similarities between Japanese/Koreans and Austronesians (or other southern Asian groups).
It's true that they share a few cultural similarities with certain Austronesian groups, but genetically speaking they're quite different from Austronesians, and the few cultural similarities were most likely brought by a proto or para Austronesian group that used to live in Shandong/Jiangsu and hence not directly related to modern Austronesians.
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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jan 8, 2023 21:55:52 GMT
Tembang sunda (Javanese court music/sung poetry) I'm noticing that a lot of Indonesian music forms (eg. this and gamelan) can have rather melancholy rhythms, which may due to influence from India and/or Muslim world. Nevertheless, it ends up reminding me a bit of some Japanese/Korean older music styles ie. enka/trot, noh, pansori, etc. in some ways First one sounds like a distinctly Indonesian (native, pre-colonial) musical scale en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PelogThe song Lathi incorporates some of the Indonesian gamelan, which uses this musical scale Not sure about the second link (which is a compliation)- sounds like a combo of New World rhythms (ska, reggae, etc.) with generic Asian sounding melodies |
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shirvanshah
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Tea Botany Expert
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Post by shirvanshah on Jan 9, 2023 3:08:33 GMT
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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jan 9, 2023 6:14:56 GMT
shirvanshah I think you look similar in "northernness/southernness" to your cousins. All of you look Fujian-ish? Really? Can you see us passing outside of Fujian area? How do my younger sister and younger brother (I am the oldest) compared to me and my cousins? I think all of you would pass fairly easily in Guangdong, judging from what Guangdong PRCs and Hong Kongers in the US look like. Not as sure about Guangxi and Hainan but you'd probably pass better there than in say Wuhan or Hangzhou. (Not that I've been to either city but the YouTube videos y'all send and post give me some vague idea) |
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Jan 9, 2023 12:02:19 GMT
Really? Can you see us passing outside of Fujian area? How do my younger sister and younger brother (I am the oldest) compared to me and my cousins? I think all of you would pass fairly easily in Guangdong, judging from what Guangdong PRCs and Hong Kongers in the US look like. Not as sure about Guangxi and Hainan but you'd probably pass better there than in say Wuhan or Hangzhou. (Not that I've been to either city but the YouTube videos y'all send and post give me some vague idea) So northernmost we would pass might be Fujian, parts of Jiangxi and Hunan? Do I look more like Cantonese, Teochew or Hakka people from Guangdong and Hong Kong? By the bolded, this is only me or all my siblings and relatives? |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 9, 2023 13:53:35 GMT
I have a somewhat different opinion from okarina. I think you guys would pass the best in Fujian and Taiwan, can also pass in Jiangxi/Hunan and the eastern parts of Guangdong (Teochew and Hakka), but would have some difficulties passing in the Cantonese regions of Western Guangdong and Guangxi since you guys have a rather obvious Mittelsinid + slight Tungid influence whereas the Cantonese from Western GD and GX are more typically Sudsinid looking with more Daic influences. For Hainan I think you guys could probably pass as Hainan Min in the eastern parts of Hainan, but would have some difficulties passing as Hlai in the western parts of Hainan. |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 9, 2023 14:03:34 GMT
Really? Can you see us passing outside of Fujian area? How do my younger sister and younger brother (I am the oldest) compared to me and my cousins? I think all of you would pass fairly easily in Guangdong, judging from what Guangdong PRCs and Hong Kongers in the US look like. Not as sure about Guangxi and Hainan but you'd probably pass better there than in say Wuhan or Hangzhou. (Not that I've been to either city but the YouTube videos y'all send and post give me some vague idea) I think they pass best in Fujian and Taiwan, can also pass in Jiangxi and Hunan and the eastern parts of Guangdong (Teochew and Hakka), but can't really pass in Western GD and GX. For Hainan they could only pass as Hainan Min but not as Hainan Hlai or Gelong. Not an expert on Hainan but I've known a few Hlai and Gelong individuals over the years and they look rather SE Asian, there was one Gelong or Cun girl that I had known before (but had since lost contact) that looked straightly Thai/Khmer and you probably wouldn't even consider her as Chinese if you see her. I think you mostly only have experience with HKers or PRC residents from Guangzhou and Shenzhen, but those are metropolitan areas with a lot of migrants from other areas (especially from Fujian, Hunan, Jiangxi, etc.) and cannot represent the most authentic Cantonese or Lingnan look. |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 9, 2023 14:08:48 GMT
I think all of you would pass fairly easily in Guangdong, judging from what Guangdong PRCs and Hong Kongers in the US look like. Not as sure about Guangxi and Hainan but you'd probably pass better there than in say Wuhan or Hangzhou. (Not that I've been to either city but the YouTube videos y'all send and post give me some vague idea) So northernmost we would pass might be Fujian, parts of Jiangxi and Hunan? Do I look more like Cantonese, Teochew or Hakka people from Guangdong and Hong Kong? By the bolded, this is only me or all my siblings and relatives? Your looks are more typically Fujianese/Min rather than Cantonese/Yue. |
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shirvanshah
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Tea Botany Expert
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Post by shirvanshah on Jan 9, 2023 17:32:59 GMT
I have a somewhat different opinion from okarina. I think you guys would pass the best in Fujian and Taiwan, can also pass in Jiangxi/Hunan and the eastern parts of Guangdong (Teochew and Hakka), but would have some difficulties passing in the Cantonese regions of Western Guangdong and Guangxi since you guys have a rather obvious Mittelsinid + slight Tungid influence whereas the Cantonese from Western GD and GX are more typically Sudsinid looking with more Daic influences. For Hainan I think you guys could probably pass as Hainan Min in the eastern parts of Hainan, but would have some difficulties passing as Hlai in the western parts of Hainan. Does this include me, my siblings or also all of the relatives/cousins that I posted that pass best in the aforementioned regions? Where is the northernmost place in China you can see all of us passing? That make sense though. When I visited Taiwan with my two other American friends (one of them is half Jewish half Pinoy and the other one is half WASP half Jewish), I really blend in and the locals would speak Mandarin to me. Many times, I have to act as interpreter/translator for my friends despite my very basic and elementary Chinese knowledge (I learnt Mandarin for two years in school and also self taught using language learning apps) since I lack practiced in real life before traveling to Taiwan. Where do you see the slight Tungid influence? I also noticed that a lot of Teochew people including my paternal uncles and aunts have rather northern-shifted looks even though they are also part Hainanese Min. Teochew probably cluster closest with Fujian and maybe Jiangxi rather than Guangdong. Some people even joke that a few of my cousins can look Japanese. |
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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jan 9, 2023 23:46:06 GMT
I think all of you would pass fairly easily in Guangdong, judging from what Guangdong PRCs and Hong Kongers in the US look like. Not as sure about Guangxi and Hainan but you'd probably pass better there than in say Wuhan or Hangzhou. (Not that I've been to either city but the YouTube videos y'all send and post give me some vague idea) So northernmost we would pass might be Fujian, parts of Jiangxi and Hunan? Do I look more like Cantonese, Teochew or Hakka people from Guangdong and Hong Kong? By the bolded, this is only me or all my siblings and relatives? Yeah, you all have a vaguely "Palaungid" (idk how else to describe this broad-faced, "robust" Hmong-like facial contour) vibe that Hunan and Jiangxi Han generally don't have, but many Guangdong Han do. I don't think you all pass better as any one of those topolect groups btw. I think most of us have a good idea of what Cantonese people look like...ones I see are split into several types. 1. Some narrow faced sharp nosed Tai pheno, usually with low facial fat and thin skin, possibly Tibetoburman influenced. 2. This wide short face type with wide cheekbones, looks similar to Khmer Viets. 3. Some Hunan looking type with round face. 4. Some South Asian [?] shifted pheno. To quote uisashi, you collectively overlap with his Type 3 but with some overlap with Type 2. |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
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Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 10, 2023 0:26:18 GMT
So northernmost we would pass might be Fujian, parts of Jiangxi and Hunan? Do I look more like Cantonese, Teochew or Hakka people from Guangdong and Hong Kong? By the bolded, this is only me or all my siblings and relatives? Yeah, you all have a vaguely "Palaungid" (idk how else to describe this broad-faced, "robust" Hmong-like facial contour) vibe that Hunan and Jiangxi Han generally don't have, but many Guangdong Han do. I don't think you all pass better as any one of those topolect groups btw. I think the features you described mostly apply to Eastern GD (Teochew and Hakka), whereas Western GD and GX look more Annamid or Indosinid and aren't that robust, at least according to my observations. And I probably know more people from those regions than you do. And moreover I don't think they're Palaungid, but rather belong to some robust Mittelsinid phenotype, with perhaps slight Tungid influences in the eye region. Such eye features are more commonly found among Hokkien, Teochew, Hakka, as well as the people of Hunan and Jiangxi than among Cantonese or Yue. There're quite a lot of people from Hunan and Jiangxi that have similarly robust features, I think his sister looks like a Jiangxi Mandarin teacher from Youtube (forgot her channel name though maybe you can search for it). |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 10, 2023 0:33:30 GMT
I have a somewhat different opinion from okarina. I think you guys would pass the best in Fujian and Taiwan, can also pass in Jiangxi/Hunan and the eastern parts of Guangdong (Teochew and Hakka), but would have some difficulties passing in the Cantonese regions of Western Guangdong and Guangxi since you guys have a rather obvious Mittelsinid + slight Tungid influence whereas the Cantonese from Western GD and GX are more typically Sudsinid looking with more Daic influences. For Hainan I think you guys could probably pass as Hainan Min in the eastern parts of Hainan, but would have some difficulties passing as Hlai in the western parts of Hainan. Does this include me, my siblings or also all of the relatives/cousins that I posted that pass best in the aforementioned regions? Where is the northernmost place in China you can see all of us passing? That make sense though. When I visited Taiwan with my two other American friends (one of them is half Jewish half Pinoy and the other one is half WASP half Jewish), I really blend in and the locals would speak Mandarin to me. Many times, I have to act as interpreter/translator for my friends despite my very basic and elementary Chinese knowledge (I learnt Mandarin for two years in school and also self taught using language learning apps) since I lack practiced in real life before traveling to Taiwan. Where do you see the slight Tungid influence? I also noticed that a lot of Teochew people including my paternal uncles and aunts have rather northern-shifted looks even though they are also part Hainanese Min. Teochew probably cluster closest with Fujian and maybe Jiangxi rather than Guangdong. Some people even joke that a few of my cousins can look Japanese. I haven't seen your pictures, I've only seen the pictures of your younger siblings and they give me a rather typical Fujianese vibe. The northernmost place in China you guys could pass is probably somewhere around northern Hunan, Hubei, or northern Jiangxi, though might be able to pass further north. The upper face of your siblings looks northern, whereas their lower face looks southern. The Tungid influence is mostly on the upper face, especially the eye region. |
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shirvanshah
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Tea Botany Expert
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Post by shirvanshah on Jan 10, 2023 2:43:00 GMT
Does this include me, my siblings or also all of the relatives/cousins that I posted that pass best in the aforementioned regions? Where is the northernmost place in China you can see all of us passing? That make sense though. When I visited Taiwan with my two other American friends (one of them is half Jewish half Pinoy and the other one is half WASP half Jewish), I really blend in and the locals would speak Mandarin to me. Many times, I have to act as interpreter/translator for my friends despite my very basic and elementary Chinese knowledge (I learnt Mandarin for two years in school and also self taught using language learning apps) since I lack practiced in real life before traveling to Taiwan. Where do you see the slight Tungid influence? I also noticed that a lot of Teochew people including my paternal uncles and aunts have rather northern-shifted looks even though they are also part Hainanese Min. Teochew probably cluster closest with Fujian and maybe Jiangxi rather than Guangdong. Some people even joke that a few of my cousins can look Japanese. I haven't seen your pictures, I've only seen the pictures of your younger siblings and they give me a rather typical Fujianese vibe. The northernmost place in China you guys could pass is probably somewhere around northern Hunan, Hubei, or northern Jiangxi, though might be able to pass further north. The upper face of your siblings looks northern, whereas their lower face looks southern. The Tungid influence is mostly on the upper face, especially the eye region. Have you seen pictures of my other relatives/cousins I posted earlier? Do Fujianese and Taiwanese typically look Mittelsinid? Can you see us passing in southern parts of Zhejiang? Here are my pics. Please don't quote. i.imgur.com/NfdLRvV.jpgi.imgur.com/euEVble.jpgi.imgur.com/IzCOYnw.jpgi.imgur.com/iSQqFoA.jpgi.imgur.com/O4mhVnf.jpgDon't know if it is only me, but I feel my siblings and relatives are more northern looking. What's interesting though is that people always say I look very Chinese even though I feel my phenotype can change depending on the picture. For example, if I take a selfie of myself after immediately waking up, I noticed I can look more southern-shifted than usual strangely enough. My other cousins on paternal side: edited. |
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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jan 10, 2023 3:47:15 GMT
I think all of you would pass fairly easily in Guangdong, judging from what Guangdong PRCs and Hong Kongers in the US look like. Not as sure about Guangxi and Hainan but you'd probably pass better there than in say Wuhan or Hangzhou. (Not that I've been to either city but the YouTube videos y'all send and post give me some vague idea) I think they pass best in Fujian and Taiwan, can also pass in Jiangxi and Hunan and the eastern parts of Guangdong (Teochew and Hakka), but can't really pass in Western GD and GX. For Hainan they could only pass as Hainan Min but not as Hainan Hlai or Gelong. Not an expert on Hainan but I've known a few Hlai and Gelong individuals over the years and they look rather SE Asian, there was one Gelong or Cun girl that I had known before (but had since lost contact) that looked straightly Thai/Khmer and you probably wouldn't even consider her as Chinese if you see her. I think you mostly only have experience with HKers or PRC residents from Guangzhou and Shenzhen, but those are metropolitan areas with a lot of migrants from other areas (especially from Fujian, Hunan, Jiangxi, etc.) and cannot represent the most authentic Cantonese or Lingnan look. The Cantonese heritage speakers I know IRL aren't from cosmopolitan backgrounds... lol. Taking another look at the photos, I don't think his siblings look particularly Japanese... at all. I actually think him and his sibings' lower passability in the Pearl River Delta is from their Siamese-influenced features, since the Siamese influence is slightly different from the Daic-like influence among Guangfu Yue speakers. Don't know if it is only me, but I feel my siblings and relatives are more northern looking. What's interesting though is that people always say I look very Chinese even though I feel my phenotype can change depending on the picture. For example, if I take a selfie of myself after immediately waking up, I noticed I can look more southern-shifted than usual strangely enough. I can relate. Sometime my hidden double eyelids come out if I'm sleep deprived or if I blink less often in a day. Not sure if it makes me look more "southern" though. You look different from his siblings in that the "Siamese" influence in your face is more in his nose and mouth, as opposed to your face shape or proportions (like your siblings), so your face is more "Sinid" looking. |
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