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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Dec 27, 2022 8:03:00 GMT
mnopsc1b Thoughts on this infographic I tried to make for the evolution of east asian phenotypes? *change “pleistocene” to “paleolithic” If I'm understanding this correctly... Cold-adapted Onge-like Eastern Eurasian branch -> Proto-East Asian Branch Proto-East Asian Branch + 40% Ancestral North Eurasian = Amerindians Proto-East Asian Branch + 15% Basal Onge-like ancestry = Ancestral East Asians Proto-East Asian Branch + 30% Basal Onge-like ancestry = Austroasiatic (idk what other relevant populations fit this paradigm) Ancestral East Asian Branch 1 + 15% Basal Onge-like ancestry = Coastal East Asian agriculturalists (Austronesian) Ancestral East Asian Branch 2 -> Inland East Asian agriculturalists (Himalayan)
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Dec 30, 2022 7:03:45 GMT
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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Dec 31, 2022 4:01:22 GMT
shirvanshah none of them would look typical anywhere IMO, but 2 can probably pass farther north (Sichuan/Chongqing ish) while the other two can probably only pass in Lingnan if at all
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Dec 31, 2022 4:53:17 GMT
shirvanshah none of them would look typical anywhere IMO, but 2 can probably pass farther north (Sichuan/Chongqing ish) while the other two can probably only pass in Lingnan if at all Can you point out which traits of them make them stand out or not look typical?
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Dec 31, 2022 14:44:34 GMT
shirvanshah none of them would look typical anywhere IMO, but 2 can probably pass farther north (Sichuan/Chongqing ish) while the other two can probably only pass in Lingnan if at all I have a slightly different opinion from yours, I think 1 looks more Sichuan/Chongqing-ish whereas 2 and 3 could probably pass in Lingnan.
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Dec 31, 2022 20:42:30 GMT
shirvanshah none of them would look typical anywhere IMO, but 2 can probably pass farther north (Sichuan/Chongqing ish) while the other two can probably only pass in Lingnan if at all I have a slightly different opinion from yours, I think 1 looks more Sichuan/Chongqing-ish whereas 2 and 3 could probably pass in Lingnan. Sorry for my ignorance, but won't 2 and 3 look a bit more northern-shifted than Lingnan region? How about the fourth, fifth and sixth girls? They are also from Chiang Rai. Don't know what ethnic/ethnolinguistic group they are but probably Northern Thai/Khon Mueang. 4. www.facebook.com/akimxp.p 5. www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1000313065964586. www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008129498430
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throway2
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Post by throway2 on Jan 1, 2023 1:33:36 GMT
1) I perceive as south-central China passing. I think the majority of Hmong can pass in Hunan/Hubei, Sichuan/Chongqing, etc. There are also some minority Henanese who can resemble her even 2) Has a basal face structure that is quite Tibeto-Burman (there is a certain nose/chin shape) but with some inland SEA influence and definitely passes in Sichuan as well as maybe even parts of Gansu/Shaanxi. Her makeup makes her look more Thai national though In some clips from a further distance/less filter distortion her facial structure reminds me a bit of this Tibetan singer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcPgpuBB28Y). Tibeto-burman women seem to often have this lean jaw + forward pointing chin 3) Probably Lingnan passing, but I can't tell beyond that because her makeup/styling/vibe are so SEA shifted In general I think that people sometimes underestimate how far north "Hmong" and certain SEA looks (especially SEA + Tibeto-Burman -> aren't "Sinitics" "northern Chinese" etc. at their base mostly Tibeto-Burman + various SEA?) can be found in China. Makeup/vibe throws things a bit off at times but without them + with equalized camera/video style I suspect that a greater amount would be seen as passing. This entire Akha family, if they changed their styling, imo could pass in northwest China/Shanxi with ease. Tibeto-Burman + Hmong/continental SEA blend faces are very common there shirvanshah btw can this Henanese lawyer pass in Thailand at all? He's from Minquan county in northern Henan/near Shandong chinachange.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/e8aeb8e5bf97e6b0b8.jpgupload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Xu_Zhiyong.JPG/1200px-Xu_Zhiyong.JPG
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throway2
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Post by throway2 on Jan 1, 2023 1:42:43 GMT
Sorry for my ignorance, but won't 2 and 3 look a bit more northern-shifted than Lingnan region? How about the fourth, fifth and sixth girls? They are also from Chiang Rai. Don't know what ethnic/ethnolinguistic group they are but probably Northern Thai/Khon Mueang. I can't view the fourth girl, but the fifth girl imo passes up to Hubei/Hunan/Sichuan. Sixth girl's vibe is very "Thai" for some reason (might be styling)
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 1, 2023 2:30:34 GMT
Among SE Asians, the general pattern is that Tibeto-Burman groups and Hmong-Mien groups tend to have more overlaps with East Asians especially Sinitic people, whereas Austronesian, Austroasiatic, and Tai-Kradai peoples tend to exhibit more overt SE Asian features and thus look more different from East Asians.
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jan 1, 2023 2:38:33 GMT
Cannot view the 4th, but the 5th girl imo probably passes best in Yunnan though could pass in Hunan/Sichuan, whereas the 6th also can pass in Yunnan and maybe in the western parts of Lingnan (Guangxi).
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Jan 1, 2023 2:47:46 GMT
Sorry for my ignorance, but won't 2 and 3 look a bit more northern-shifted than Lingnan region? How about the fourth, fifth and sixth girls? They are also from Chiang Rai. Don't know what ethnic/ethnolinguistic group they are but probably Northern Thai/Khon Mueang. I can't view the fourth girl, but the fifth girl imo passes up to Hubei/Hunan/Sichuan. Sixth girl's vibe is very "Thai" for some reason (might be styling) Can you see the fourth girl now?: www.facebook.com/akimxp.p/photosCan sixth girl pass in the parts of Yunnan such as Xishuangbanna or among the Kra-Dai areas of Guangxi such as Zhuang, Gelao, Maonan? Fifth girl-pass among both Han in those areas and ethnic minorities such as Tujia, Miao right? Pardon my ignorance, but are there differences in phenotypes between the Han (I know Han are very diverse and is more of a cultural than ethnic term) there and minorities?
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Jan 1, 2023 2:53:08 GMT
Cannot view the 4th, but the 5th girl imo probably passes best in Yunnan though could pass in Hunan/Sichuan, whereas the 6th also can pass in Yunnan and maybe in the western parts of Lingnan (Guangxi). Can you see the fourth one now?: www.facebook.com/akimxp.p/photosOut of the sixth, which one look the most "northern-shifted", I believe the number 6 look the most SE Asian? 6th pass among the Dai of XIshuangbanna and probably among Kra-Dai such as Zhuang, Gelao, Maonan or Hlai?
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throway2
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Post by throway2 on Jan 1, 2023 3:25:28 GMT
Can you see the fourth girl now?: deleted Can sixth girl pass in the parts of Yunnan such as Xishuangbanna or among the Kra-Dai areas of Guangxi such as Zhuang, Gelao, Maonan? Fifth girl-pass among both Han in those areas and ethnic minorities such as Tujia, Miao right? Pardon my ignorance, but are there differences in phenotypes between the Han (I know Han are very diverse and is more of a cultural than ethnic term) there and minorities? I would think so for sixth girl Fourth girl imo also looks "Thai". Does not pass very far north up in China Tujia look very similar to local SW Han, Miao are just Chinese Hmong. I think Miao can blend into Tujia and SW Han but have a slightly different range (rounder faces, less Tibeto-Burman looking than Han/Tujia)
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throway2
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Post by throway2 on Jan 1, 2023 3:26:45 GMT
Among SE Asians, the general pattern is that Tibeto-Burman groups and Hmong-Mien groups tend to have more overlaps with East Asians especially Sinitic people, whereas Austronesian, Austroasiatic, and Tai-Kradai peoples tend to exhibit more overt SE Asian features and thus look more different from East Asians. Austronesians overlap with Japanese, Koreans, and coastal Han a lot.
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Jan 1, 2023 3:50:13 GMT
Can you see the fourth girl now?: deleted Can sixth girl pass in the parts of Yunnan such as Xishuangbanna or among the Kra-Dai areas of Guangxi such as Zhuang, Gelao, Maonan? Fifth girl-pass among both Han in those areas and ethnic minorities such as Tujia, Miao right? Pardon my ignorance, but are there differences in phenotypes between the Han (I know Han are very diverse and is more of a cultural than ethnic term) there and minorities? I would think so for sixth girl Fourth girl imo also looks "Thai". Does not pass very far north up in China Tujia look very similar to local SW Han, Miao are just Chinese Hmong. I think Miao can blend into Tujia and SW Han but have a slightly different range (rounder faces, less Tibeto-Burman looking than Han/Tujia) By "Thai", you mean Siamese or more like Tai-Kadai? Where in China can fourth female pass then: Yunnan, Guangxi? Would fourth and sixth ladies pass better overall in Vietnam than in most of China? I noticed that Kinh Vietnamese are predominantly Kra-Dai genetically despite having some Sinitic/Yellow River and minor Austroasiatic inputs and can overlap significantly with Tai peoples.
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