East Asian autosomal genetics megathread

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okarinaofsteiner • Architectural Master Posts: 78 Likes: 15	Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jun 29, 2022 5:12:39 GMT Hello there, I was invited to join this space recently. Saw there was a population genetics subthread but it's been inactive for several years. Thought you all may be interested in this map someone on Anthrogenica (a population genetics forum) made. They used some reference populations from the G25 database (this is an online calculator people use to compare ancient and modern populations), modeled them according to certain ancient Asian populations we have G25 coordinates for, and mapped those populations on a map of Asia according to where said population is most commonly found. The most recent map they made is kind of confusing because it includes so many Asian populations it's hard to see every different population in a sea of data points. Hope any readers find this interesting! P.S. Here is a link to my East Asian population genetics megathread on Anthrogenica: anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?20657-okarinaofsteiner-s-East-Eurasian-GEDmatch-megathread You'll need to register for an account if you want to see more than a couple posts though.
	anti-racist on here for kicks and giggles
East Asian autosomal genetics megathread Posted Jun 29, 2022 5:12:39 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

okarinaofsteiner • Architectural Master Posts: 78 Likes: 15	Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jan 27, 2023 7:18:50 GMT Graphics from Razib Khan's substack: TL;DR of all the conjecture and wordspam on East Eurasian population genetics/history. The "conventional wisdom" among Chinese diaspora former Anthroscape members is that Koreans have some "Southern NE Asian" ancestry, just less than Northern Han who obviously have less than Southern Han. Even Yue-speaking Han seem to have more "Northern NEA" than "Southern NEA" ancestry, if Wuzhuangguoliang and Liangdao are appropriate proxies for "Northern NEA" and "Southern NEA". "Proportions of two genetic lineages that diverged 19,000 years ago in North China (blue) and South China (orange) in Han Chinese regional populations and ethnic minorities. Adapted from Genomic Insights into the Formation of Human Populations in East Asia" Interesting that Dai, Li, and Ami (Taiwanese aborigine/Gaoshan) are all roughly the same ratio of YellowRiver_LN and Liangdao... Kinh (Vietnamese) seems slightly more "Northern" than Dai (which is to be expected) but also more "Southern" than Zhuang. Genetic distances based on pairwise Fst between the Southern Han and selected populations. The smallest genetic distance, between Northern and Southern Han, is standardized to 1. Note that all of the "East Asian" populations are within 10 of Southern Han... Uyghur is the next closest at 14.4. The order of the Southeast Asian groups' distances from Southern Han (red asterisk is directly on Jiangxi) suggests that Hoabinhian-like ancestry outweighs differences among "Southern NEA" subbranches (Austronesian, Daic, etc). Southern Han being almost equidistant from Koreans and Dai makes sense in terms how Fujian-like (in terms of northern/southerness) Han score on MDLP K23b ancestry components. Link to Anthrogenica post
	anti-racist on here for kicks and giggles
East Asian autosomal genetics megathread Posted Jan 27, 2023 7:18:50 GMT Edited by okarinaofsteiner Jan 27, 2023 8:01:08 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

okarinaofsteiner • Architectural Master Posts: 78 Likes: 15	Post by okarinaofsteiner on Apr 17, 2023 15:51:38 GMT Apr 15, 2023 21:40:33 GMT throway2 said: Apr 15, 2023 21:29:23 GMT mnopsc1b said: Yep, I saw that thread too. So you Sinocentrists and Han chauvinists should look for your ancestries in the north and stop claiming that you guys are Austroasiatic or Austronesian. Why can't Sino-Tibetans just be roughly in between ancient Mongolia and western SEA (Austroasiatics, Hmong-Mien)? From Genomic Insights into the Demographic History of Southern Chinese Figure 3. Demographic modelling for deep history of East Asians. (B.) Three-source qpAdm models the contribution of Northern East Asian (represented by Mongolia_N), Coastal Southern East Asian (represented by Fujian_LN), and Inland Southern East Asian (represented by Mekong_N) lineages in ancient and present-day East Asians.
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East Asian autosomal genetics megathread Posted Apr 17, 2023 15:51:38 GMT via mobile Edited by okarinaofsteiner Apr 17, 2023 15:55:12 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

okarinaofsteiner • Architectural Master Posts: 78 Likes: 15	Post by okarinaofsteiner on Apr 17, 2023 16:02:24 GMT Apr 16, 2023 13:28:36 GMT shirvanshah said: Apr 15, 2023 21:49:00 GMT mnopsc1b said: Wa cannot represent the original Austroasiatics since they have around 39% Upper YR related genome. Late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age samples from Laos should be better representatives of the original Austroasiatics than modern Wa. Similarly, modern Henan Han might not be the best representatives of the original Sinitic speakers either, since they likely have some southern admixtures. The Wa probably receive Upper YR-related admixture from mingling with the Sino-Tibetans tribes in Yunnan such as Bai, Yi, Naxi, etc I assumed? On the reverse side, the Sino-Tibetan speaking ,Akha , Hani, etc. score substantial Austroasiatic-related gene flow as well. Here is the least Sinitic-shifted Wa individual (the Wa seem to prefermodern Tibeto-Burmans such as the Qiang or Yi rather than ancient Upper YR samples) Target: Wa:65261709240049 Distance: 2.1257% / 0.02125707 66.4 Mlabri 33.6 Qiang_Danba Adding LAO_LN_BA hardly improves the fit but sliglty increase the Qiang: Target: Wa:65261709240049 Distance: 2.1114% / 0.02111363 55.0 Mlabri 35.0 Qiang_Danba 10.0 LAO_LN_BA Include the Dai in the run to see if this Wa also have some Tai-Kadai admixture. This individual seem to have some Tai-Kadai input, unlike a lot of Wa G25 samples. The additional Tai affinity in this Wa seems to lower the Qiang component imo. Target: Wa:65261709240049 Distance: 1.9031% / 0.01903059 52.8 Mlabri 28.0 Qiang_Danba 15.6 Dai 3.0 LAO_LN_BA 0.6 Tamil_Brahmin_Iyengar Karen_Sgaw (a subgroup of the Karen) from Thailand also score similar amounts of Upper_YR ancestry as the average Wa: Target: Karen_Sgaw Distance: 1.4997% / 0.01499652 51.2 Mlabri 39.6 Qiang_Danba 8.0 LAO_LN_BA 1.2 Tamil_Brahmin_Iyengar Akha and Hani, who are Sino-Tibetan but have high Austroasiatic related stuff: Target: Akha Distance: 0.7195% / 0.00719524 60.8 Qiang_Danba 14.6 Mlabri 14.2 LAO_LN_BA 10.4 Dai Target: Hani Distance: 1.0022% / 0.01002170 56.8 Qiang_Danba 24.8 Mlabri 18.0 Dai 0.4 LAO_LN_BA Indeed regarding those ancient samples from Laos. Heck, even the isolated Mlabri and Htin tribes represented the original Austroasiatic better than the Wa. I used both Wa and Mlabri in my Everything Bagel G25 Vahaduo model because I thought Wa would be a better representation of the ancestors of Austroasiatics before they acquired a lot of Hoabinhian admixture. Using both Wa and Mlabri showd different types and levels of Austroasiatic admixture in non-Austroasiatic speaking populations, e.g. Han_Sichuan.
	anti-racist on here for kicks and giggles
East Asian autosomal genetics megathread Posted Apr 17, 2023 16:02:24 GMT Edited by okarinaofsteiner Apr 17, 2023 16:03:25 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

shirvanshah • Tea Botany Expert Posts: 134 Likes: 29 Gender Identity: Ace	Post by shirvanshah on Apr 17, 2023 16:14:58 GMT Apr 17, 2023 16:02:24 GMT okarinaofsteiner said: Apr 16, 2023 13:28:36 GMT shirvanshah said: The Wa probably receive Upper YR-related admixture from mingling with the Sino-Tibetans tribes in Yunnan such as Bai, Yi, Naxi, etc I assumed? On the reverse side, the Sino-Tibetan speaking ,Akha , Hani, etc. score substantial Austroasiatic-related gene flow as well. Here is the least Sinitic-shifted Wa individual (the Wa seem to prefermodern Tibeto-Burmans such as the Qiang or Yi rather than ancient Upper YR samples) Target: Wa:65261709240049 Distance: 2.1257% / 0.02125707 66.4 Mlabri 33.6 Qiang_Danba Adding LAO_LN_BA hardly improves the fit but sliglty increase the Qiang: Target: Wa:65261709240049 Distance: 2.1114% / 0.02111363 55.0 Mlabri 35.0 Qiang_Danba 10.0 LAO_LN_BA Include the Dai in the run to see if this Wa also have some Tai-Kadai admixture. This individual seem to have some Tai-Kadai input, unlike a lot of Wa G25 samples. The additional Tai affinity in this Wa seems to lower the Qiang component imo. Target: Wa:65261709240049 Distance: 1.9031% / 0.01903059 52.8 Mlabri 28.0 Qiang_Danba 15.6 Dai 3.0 LAO_LN_BA 0.6 Tamil_Brahmin_Iyengar Karen_Sgaw (a subgroup of the Karen) from Thailand also score similar amounts of Upper_YR ancestry as the average Wa: Target: Karen_Sgaw Distance: 1.4997% / 0.01499652 51.2 Mlabri 39.6 Qiang_Danba 8.0 LAO_LN_BA 1.2 Tamil_Brahmin_Iyengar Akha and Hani, who are Sino-Tibetan but have high Austroasiatic related stuff: Target: Akha Distance: 0.7195% / 0.00719524 60.8 Qiang_Danba 14.6 Mlabri 14.2 LAO_LN_BA 10.4 Dai Target: Hani Distance: 1.0022% / 0.01002170 56.8 Qiang_Danba 24.8 Mlabri 18.0 Dai 0.4 LAO_LN_BA Indeed regarding those ancient samples from Laos. Heck, even the isolated Mlabri and Htin tribes represented the original Austroasiatic better than the Wa. I used both Wa and Mlabri in my Everything Bagel G25 Vahaduo model because I thought Wa would be a better representation of the ancestors of Austroasiatics before they acquired a lot of Hoabinhian admixture. Using both Wa and Mlabri showd different types and levels of Austroasiatic admixture in non-Austroasiatic speaking populations, e.g. Han_Sichuan. Wa and Mlabri might indeed demonstrate different types of Austroasiatic admixture. What happens if you remove Wa but leave Mlabri as the only Austroasiatic proxy? Do Sichuanese still show minor Austroasiatic signal?

East Asian autosomal genetics megathread Posted Apr 17, 2023 16:14:58 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

okarinaofsteiner • Architectural Master Posts: 78 Likes: 15	Post by okarinaofsteiner on Apr 17, 2023 18:46:19 GMT Apr 17, 2023 16:14:58 GMT shirvanshah said: Apr 17, 2023 16:02:24 GMT okarinaofsteiner said: I used both Wa and Mlabri in my Everything Bagel G25 Vahaduo model because I thought Wa would be a better representation of the ancestors of Austroasiatics before they acquired a lot of Hoabinhian admixture. Using both Wa and Mlabri showd different types and levels of Austroasiatic admixture in non-Austroasiatic speaking populations, e.g. Han_Sichuan. Wa and Mlabri might indeed demonstrate different types of Austroasiatic admixture. What happens if you remove Wa but leave Mlabri as the only Austroasiatic proxy? Do Sichuanese still show minor Austroasiatic signal? Yes, the fit isn't that much different. 3.8% Wa + Mlabri to 2.6% Mlabri
	anti-racist on here for kicks and giggles
East Asian autosomal genetics megathread Posted Apr 17, 2023 18:46:19 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

okarinaofsteiner • Architectural Master Posts: 78 Likes: 15	Post by okarinaofsteiner on Apr 28, 2023 5:41:45 GMT This post of mine from my Anthrogenica megathread got a thank from a Guamanian poster lol Ancient DNA reveals five streams of migration into Micronesia and matrilocality in early Pacific seafarers Human migrations into Micronesia The movements of ancient humans can be difficult to ascertain from their current population genetic structure. Studying the peopling of the Micronesian islands, Liu et al. examined 164 ancient human remains from five different archaeological sites in remote Oceania from different prehistoric time frames, along with 112 present-day individuals from the same area. They combined these new data with the results of previous studies and also compared their results with linguistic studies. Their analysis revealed successive movements from island Southeast Asia that differ from those in the southwest Pacific. Furthermore, co-analysis of Micronesian and southwest Pacific ancient DNA indicates that the first people who colonized the Pacific islands had a population structure in which men moved to find their mates, whereas women rarely moved to join men. —LMZ Abstract Micronesia began to be peopled earlier than other parts of Remote Oceania, but the origins of its inhabitants remain unclear. We generated genome-wide data from 164 ancient and 112 modern individuals. Analysis reveals five migratory streams into Micronesia. Three are East Asian related, one is Polynesian, and a fifth is a Papuan source related to mainland New Guineans that is different from the New Britain–related Papuan source for southwest Pacific populations but is similarly derived from male migrants ~2500 to 2000 years ago. People of the Mariana Archipelago may derive all of their precolonial ancestry from East Asian sources, making them the only Remote Oceanians without Papuan ancestry. Female-inherited mitochondrial DNA was highly differentiated across early Remote Oceanian communities but homogeneous within, implying matrilocal practices whereby women almost never raised their children in communities different from the ones in which they grew up. www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm6536 I’m glad this isn’t Anthroscape or some similarly phenotype-oriented forum. No weird “racial purity” statements about Chamorro-Filipina-American goddess Joleen Diaz please, let’s admire her slightly-augmented youthful beauty without any of that crap.
	anti-racist on here for kicks and giggles
East Asian autosomal genetics megathread Posted Apr 28, 2023 5:41:45 GMT Edited by okarinaofsteiner Apr 28, 2023 5:44:10 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top