mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 2, 2022 1:40:10 GMT
LOL I've probably seen and known a lot more people than you do from Western GD and GX, and really none of them appears robust or stocky, quite the contrary I would say they're rather lanky and slim. Large deep-set eyes yes, but robust square pheno with wide cheekbones definitely not the case. I'd say that Hokkien people as well as people from certain regions of Central China like Henan, Anhui, or Hubei have a much higher chance of having robust square pheno than people from Western GD and GX who tend to be more Daic-like. This composite photo of Guangdong people (the author said he used no less than 100 samples for both men and women to make the composite) quite accurately describes my impression about the Cantonese speakers from Western GD and GX.  The urban students from Pearl River Delta that you're talking about are probably descendants of migrants from other regions of China. Imo there is definitely a certain proportion of those phenos that I described in street/rural Guangdong. They just don't show up in Canada much, as intl Chinese students are gracile and don't range much. I think robustness is mostly similar in most populations if you equalize lifestyle, exercise and nutrition. There is a distinct robust Canto type (big cheekbones and very angular features) along with a gracile pheno, similar to Wes. From my understanding and observations the robust eastern coast pheno tends to be more common towards Eastern GD among the Hakka and Teochew, whereas Western GD and GX tend to be less robust and more similar to Daic. Of course you can cherry-pick out a few exceptions, but I'm talking about a general trend. |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 2, 2022 1:46:48 GMT
 Is this type of Thai phenotype (boy on right) structurally similar to this type of phenotype (common in Shanxi/northwestern China and Tibeto-Burmans):  imgur.com/a/YXltWTG(a Shanxi farmer) imgur.com/a/qZyd5PD(an Amdo Tibetan boy) Though more "SEA" shifted of course. But in morphology I feel some degree of continuity here... Such types do exist among Thais but certainly aren't common, you shouldn't make blatant generalizations. I believe the existence of such types among Thais is due to Tibeto-Burman influences. There're some Tibeto-Burman speaking tribes living in northern and northwestern Thailand. |
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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jul 2, 2022 1:52:27 GMT
Also I completely agree with what throway said about Bat-Ochiryn Bolortuyaa and He Zi. Well, he only showed one photo of the Mongolian wrestler and I'm afraid we can't say much from just one photo. I showed a front photo of He Zi and she's quite thin and slim and I really don't think she has thick calves. And if you know anything about diving then you should be aware that being stocky and having a bigger frame are not advantageous for this sport. Again you and throway2 can believe whatever you like I'm not here to convince you, but I feel you guys really need some reality check. His observations about SE Asians having proportionally longer and thicker arms is accurate. Look at the Cambodian version of Li Ziqi- her forearms and wrists are thicker compared to the rest of her body, even if her actual body size is smaller and shorter. Her facial features look distinctly Khmer to me, I wouldn't guess her as Thai/Lao or Viet shirvanshah And I don't think Canto-Americans are necessarily a good representation of Cantonese in general, cause a lot of Canto ABCs have other admixtures, the most famous examples being Fung Bros who have Shandong and Shanghai admixtures and Awkwafina who has Korean and Beijing admixtures. Same thing for Malaysian Chinese, who are mostly of Hokkien descent from what I know. I cherrypicked natively Cantonese speaking ABCs whose families are from the Pearl River Delta area. Those are way more numerous than cosmopolitan Fung Bros types. But if you want more examples here you go (watch between 1:00 and 2:00 for photos of the family members) |
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uisashi
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Tea Botany Expert
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Post by uisashi on Jul 2, 2022 1:56:39 GMT
Are FSC people unfairly memed on in appearance? On mainstream phenotype forums, South Chinese are oftentimes seen as some neoteonized babypheno, but in actuality, are most more fitting of mainstream beauty ideals than bulk East Asians? Many Canto ABCs I feel like are quite good looking.
I get the feeling that bad FSC appearance stereotypes might be due to modern day HK/Singapore esque places being predom of this nerdy appearance due to their lifestyle.
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 2, 2022 2:04:03 GMT
Well, he only showed one photo of the Mongolian wrestler and I'm afraid we can't say much from just one photo. I showed a front photo of He Zi and she's quite thin and slim and I really don't think she has thick calves. And if you know anything about diving then you should be aware that being stocky and having a bigger frame are not advantageous for this sport. Again you and throway2 can believe whatever you like I'm not here to convince you, but I feel you guys really need some reality check. His observations about SE Asians having proportionally longer and thicker arms is accurate. Look at the Cambodian version of Li Ziqi- her forearms and wrists are thicker compared to the rest of her body, even if her actual body size is smaller and shorter. Her facial features look distinctly Khmer to me, I wouldn't guess her as Thai/Lao or Viet shirvanshah And I don't think Canto-Americans are necessarily a good representation of Cantonese in general, cause a lot of Canto ABCs have other admixtures, the most famous examples being Fung Bros who have Shandong and Shanghai admixtures and Awkwafina who has Korean and Beijing admixtures. Same thing for Malaysian Chinese, who are mostly of Hokkien descent from what I know. I cherrypicked natively Cantonese speaking ABCs whose families are from the Pearl River Delta area. Those are way more numerous than cosmopolitan Fung Bros types. But if you want more examples here you go (watch between 1:00 and 2:00 for photos of the family members) Far South Chinese and SE Asians have longer limbs in proportionate to their body than more northern Asians that's largely true. But thicker arms? I really don't think so. The Khmer girl appears to be quite gracile to me with long and thin limbs, she doesn't look robust at all. If that's your definition of robust then I'm Super Saiyan. And kudos to the Cantonese video. Yes the old Cantonese man looks quite typically Canto and matches my impressions about them perfectly. |
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throway2
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Post by throway2 on Jul 2, 2022 2:08:26 GMT
Far South Chinese and SE Asians have longer limbs in proportionate to their body than more northern Asians that's largely true. But thicker arms? I really don't think so. The Khmer girl appears to be quite gracile to me with long and thin limbs, she doesn't look robust at all. If that's your definition of robust then I'm Super Saiyan. And kudos to the Cantonese video. Yes the old Cantonese man looks quite typically Canto and matches my impressions about them perfectly.  IMO "saiyans" look and behave really austronesian-like. Austronesians tend to like combat/physical competition/sports, just like saiyans |
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uisashi
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Tea Botany Expert
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Post by uisashi on Jul 2, 2022 2:09:44 GMT
MNOPS, what are your body proportions/strength distribution? E.g are you muscular and naturally strong in certain areas, like chest?
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 2, 2022 2:13:33 GMT
MNOPS, what are your body proportions/strength distribution? E.g are you muscular and naturally strong in certain areas, like chest? I have a quite average body in terms of Northern Chinese standards (I'm half Northern Chinese half Southwestern Chinese), but if okarina and throway2 are randomly calling and labeling gracile Far South Chinese and Khmer girls as stocky and robust then by their standards I'm probably extremely robust, LOL. |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
Likes: 67
Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 2, 2022 2:21:14 GMT
Are FSC people unfairly memed on in appearance? On mainstream phenotype forums, South Chinese are oftentimes seen as some neoteonized babypheno, but in actuality, are most more fitting of mainstream beauty ideals than bulk East Asians? Many Canto ABCs I feel like are quite good looking. I get the feeling that bad FSC appearance stereotypes might be due to modern day HK/Singapore esque places being predom of this nerdy appearance due to their lifestyle. FSC are definitely not nerdy, in fact I think their appearance is quite attractive among Chinese and among East Asians, especially their women who tend to have large eyes and are rather gracile-looking. I tend to associate the nerdy pheno (thick glasses, pale skin, round face, and small eyes) with urban youths from Northern and Eastern China. |
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uisashi
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Tea Botany Expert
Posts: 118
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Post by uisashi on Jul 2, 2022 2:37:24 GMT
Are FSC people unfairly memed on in appearance? On mainstream phenotype forums, South Chinese are oftentimes seen as some neoteonized babypheno, but in actuality, are most more fitting of mainstream beauty ideals than bulk East Asians? Many Canto ABCs I feel like are quite good looking. I get the feeling that bad FSC appearance stereotypes might be due to modern day HK/Singapore esque places being predom of this nerdy appearance due to their lifestyle. FSC are definitely not nerdy, in fact I think their appearance is quite attractive among Chinese and among East Asians, especially their women who tend to have large eyes and are rather gracile-looking. I tend to associate the nerdy pheno (thick glasses, pale skin, round face, and small eyes) with urban youths from Northern and Eastern China. This "nerdy pheno" does not seem like it's a regional feature, but what happens when your economy develops too fast and becomes too competitive, so young people are driven into this studystunt lifestyle where they wake up, study all day and sleep with poor exercise and living habits. As expected, young people in many urban Chinese cities today have this undergrown face pheno, similar to this. Older generation of Chinese people generally do not look like that. This phenomenon isn't limited to just urban north and east China, but in places like Guangzhou/HK as well. I think everyone will look better once people have less pressure and more exercise.  |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
Posts: 363
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Ethnic Heritage: Southwest Chinese
Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 2, 2022 3:40:24 GMT
FSC are definitely not nerdy, in fact I think their appearance is quite attractive among Chinese and among East Asians, especially their women who tend to have large eyes and are rather gracile-looking. I tend to associate the nerdy pheno (thick glasses, pale skin, round face, and small eyes) with urban youths from Northern and Eastern China. This "nerdy pheno" does not seem like it's a regional feature, but what happens when your economy develops too fast and becomes too competitive, so young people are driven into this studystunt lifestyle where they wake up, study all day and sleep with poor exercise and living habits. As expected, young people in many urban Chinese cities today have this undergrown face pheno, similar to this. Older generation of Chinese people generally do not look like that. This phenomenon isn't limited to just urban north and east China, but in places like Guangzhou/HK as well. I think everyone will look better once people have less pressure and more exercise. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> Metropolis like HK and Guangzhou have a lot of recent migrants from other parts of China, like eastern, central, and even northern China. |
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Jul 2, 2022 4:14:17 GMT
Well, he only showed one photo of the Mongolian wrestler and I'm afraid we can't say much from just one photo. I showed a front photo of He Zi and she's quite thin and slim and I really don't think she has thick calves. And if you know anything about diving then you should be aware that being stocky and having a bigger frame are not advantageous for this sport. Again you and throway2 can believe whatever you like I'm not here to convince you, but I feel you guys really need some reality check. His observations about SE Asians having proportionally longer and thicker arms is accurate. Look at the Cambodian version of Li Ziqi- her forearms and wrists are thicker compared to the rest of her body, even if her actual body size is smaller and shorter. Her facial features look distinctly Khmer to me, I wouldn't guess her as Thai/Lao or Viet shirvanshah And I don't think Canto-Americans are necessarily a good representation of Cantonese in general, cause a lot of Canto ABCs have other admixtures, the most famous examples being Fung Bros who have Shandong and Shanghai admixtures and Awkwafina who has Korean and Beijing admixtures. Same thing for Malaysian Chinese, who are mostly of Hokkien descent from what I know. I cherrypicked natively Cantonese speaking ABCs whose families are from the Pearl River Delta area. Those are way more numerous than cosmopolitan Fung Bros types. But if you want more examples here you go (watch between 1:00 and 2:00 for photos of the family members) I wouldn't say she look distinctly Khmer as I have seen some Indonesian and Philippine girls who look like her. She can also easily pass as Central Thai or even a Southern Isaan local as they are assimilated Mons, Khmers or are predominantly Austroasiatic genetically. |
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Jul 2, 2022 4:18:23 GMT
Is this type of Thai phenotype (boy on right) structurally similar to this type of phenotype (common in Shanxi/northwestern China and Tibeto-Burmans): imgur.com/a/YXltWTG(a Shanxi farmer) imgur.com/a/qZyd5PD(an Amdo Tibetan boy) Though more "SEA" shifted of course. But in morphology I feel some degree of continuity here... This phenotype exist but its not typical. Its mainly due to the Chinese ancestry in many Thais and also many Northern Thais can look like this probably due to Tibeto-Burman admixture (there are some Tibeto-Burman groups in Northern Thailand). |
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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jul 2, 2022 17:51:07 GMT
This "nerdy pheno" does not seem like it's a regional feature, but what happens when your economy develops too fast and becomes too competitive, so young people are driven into this studystunt lifestyle where they wake up, study all day and sleep with poor exercise and living habits. As expected, young people in many urban Chinese cities today have this undergrown face pheno, similar to this. Older generation of Chinese people generally do not look like that. This phenomenon isn't limited to just urban north and east China, but in places like Guangzhou/HK as well. I think everyone will look better once people have less pressure and more exercise. Metropolis like HK and Guangzhou have a lot of recent migrants from other parts of China, like eastern, central, and even northern China. Gracile/petite Joshua Wong types do not exist anywhere north of Fujian ( maybe Zhejiang, probably not in Sichuan/Chongqing even though that region is similarly SEA-shifted autosomally because the SEA-like ancestry is different) His observations about SE Asians having proportionally longer and thicker arms is accurate. Look at the Cambodian version of Li Ziqi- her forearms and wrists are thicker compared to the rest of her body, even if her actual body size is smaller and shorter. Her facial features look distinctly Khmer to me, I wouldn't guess her as Thai/Lao or Viet shirvanshah I wouldn't say she look distinctly Khmer as I have seen some Indonesian and Philippine girls who look like her. She can also easily pass as Central Thai or even a Southern Isaan local as they are assimilated Mons, Khmers or are predominantly Austroasiatic genetically. Okay yeah, there are Western Indonesians who have more of a Khmer/Austroasiatic look. Sara Fajira is a pretty good example. Not sure about Thai or Filipina women, there's something about Polin's features that's more angular and vaguely similar to Viets that I don't see with Siamese/Isaan stock photos or with Filipinas I've met IRL (I understand Filipino Americans are mostly Chinese mixed, Tagalog, and/or Ilocano though). |
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
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Gender Identity: Daic
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 2, 2022 19:13:30 GMT
Metropolis like HK and Guangzhou have a lot of recent migrants from other parts of China, like eastern, central, and even northern China. Gracile/petite Joshua Wong types do not exist anywhere north of Fujian ( maybe Zhejiang, probably not in Sichuan/Chongqing even though that region is similarly SEA-shifted autosomally because the SEA-like ancestry is different) TBH I don't think Joshua Wong looks typical Canto either. His small eyes with clearly visible epicanthic folds that are set quite far apart from one another as well as his rather wide and flat face remind me somewhat of a certain Central Chinese phenotype from Hubei or Hunan, and it's quite possible that he has ancestries from those regions. Joshua resembles a thinner or slimmer version of the Chinese footballer Zhang Xizhe, who is of Hubei origin and currently plays for the club Beijing Guoan. I attached a photo of Zhang Xizhe below, and I think there're some similarities between the two. Apart from Zhang Xizhe, he also reminded me of a Hubei student that I attended high school with. Unfortunately I don't have his pictures anymore. Anyways, HK is a quite mixed metropolis and imho isn't a good place to look for the most typical Canto phenotypes. I'm not sure how you found the video of the old Canto man making porridge but that's the only time you were spot-on right about the typical Canto phenotype.  |
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