mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 9, 2022 0:50:40 GMT
Do Mongols even have a small forehead or a big distance between eyes and eyebrows? Mongols seem to often have this big round forehead and their eyes seem lowbrow + more sunken than bulk Han Chinese. I agree that many Mongols seem to pass better in say Hunan than Shanxi for some reason (narrow faced Loess farmer phenotype seems non-existent in Mongolia). I don't think Mongols look FSC nor do I think Throw suggested that, but I do think that Mongols aren't actually that similar to northern Chinese or Koreans in appearance oftentimes. Mongols still look way more similar to Koreans and Northern Chinese than to FSC and SE Asians, to deny this is tantamount to trolling and lying. Really if you want to lie and troll then please open your own thread don't do it in my thread. And no Northern Chinese aren't some aliens that are totally unrelated to surrounding peoples, please be objective and factual. In genetic testing Northern Chinese would often score some percentages of Mongolian and Korean/Japanese, it should be a well-known fact by now.
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uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Jul 9, 2022 1:38:47 GMT
Genetic tests are extremely inaccurate...I scored like 30% Korean, which is obviously ridiculous.
I think basally speaking, northern Han share structural similarities to certain Tibetans the most. Mongols are their own group imo.
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 9, 2022 3:15:22 GMT
Genetic tests are extremely inaccurate...I scored like 30% Korean, which is obviously ridiculous. I think basally speaking, northern Han share structural similarities to certain Tibetans the most. Mongols are their own group imo. 30% Korean for someone of Shandong ancestry like you actually makes a lot of sense, since Shandong Han are quite close to Koreans genetically speaking. Here's the G25 genetic analysis results by quoran Ygor Coelho, you can read his full post under this question: www.quora.com/What-is-the-genetic-relationship-between-modern-day-Koreans-and-Japanese
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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jul 9, 2022 4:26:37 GMT
I think I've mentioned many times on Anthroscape that folks from Western GD and GX have a strong overlap with SE Asians, not only with mainland SE Asians but sometimes also with insular or maritime ones as well. At that time nobody believed me. But now you know. I don't think this was ever something people disagreed with you on? Maybe just on who can pass where and whether Western Guangdong and Guangxi are interchangeable (spoiler: they probably aren't) I'm struck by how West Eurasian-influenced some of them look, which is due to having lighter skin and brown-grey colored eyes. 8, 21, and 24 are the only ones that strike me as having a South Asian or Uyghur vibe. 19 has this deeper set eyes (but distinctly East Eurasian) look I specifically associate with Austroasiatic populations. 28 has this eye shape/region that reminds me of Charlie Soong (宋嘉澍). A lot of them have a Khmer vibe that you don't really see with Vietnamese or with Guangdong Yue-speakers. They have very strong overlap with SE Asians imo. Many can pass easily in Indochina and even in parts of Maritime SE Asia. It's interesting indeed how West Eurasian and South Asian influenced some of them can look. . I heard that the Vietnamese are even more northern-shifted genetically than Guangxi folks despite being located more southern. True a lot of have this Khmer or Austroasiatic look, although there are some Viets who can look like this as well such as Cung Le, Truong The Vinh, Kyle Le, etc. That might be true to the extent that Vietnamese have admixture from Fujian-level-of-northernness Chinese, but I'm skeptical that the East Eurasian ancestry of Guangxi Han is autosomally more southern than Kinh Vietnamese overall. The Khmer-passing look those three people you mentioned is different from what we see in uisashi's Guangxi convicts. Maybe it's something about eye shape + placement? Trương Thế Vinh (he's from Da Nang which is on the central coast btw, so not formerly Khmer Empire territory) Kyle Le (I think?)
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throway2
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Post by throway2 on Jul 9, 2022 4:49:30 GMT
I think there may be a difference in terms of Viet subgroups and how "Khmer" they look.
We would need to compare the Guangxi convicts to Viet convicts for an objective insight
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shirvanshah
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Post by shirvanshah on Jul 9, 2022 6:12:18 GMT
I think I've mentioned many times on Anthroscape that folks from Western GD and GX have a strong overlap with SE Asians, not only with mainland SE Asians but sometimes also with insular or maritime ones as well. At that time nobody believed me. But now you know. I don't think this was ever something people disagreed with you on? Maybe just on who can pass where and whether Western Guangdong and Guangxi are interchangeable (spoiler: they probably aren't) They have very strong overlap with SE Asians imo. Many can pass easily in Indochina and even in parts of Maritime SE Asia. It's interesting indeed how West Eurasian and South Asian influenced some of them can look. . I heard that the Vietnamese are even more northern-shifted genetically than Guangxi folks despite being located more southern. True a lot of have this Khmer or Austroasiatic look, although there are some Viets who can look like this as well such as Cung Le, Truong The Vinh, Kyle Le, etc. That might be true to the extent that Vietnamese have admixture from Fujian-level-of-northernness Chinese, but I'm skeptical that the East Eurasian ancestry of Guangxi Han is autosomally more southern than Kinh Vietnamese overall. The Khmer-passing look those three people you mentioned is different from what we see in uisashi's Guangxi convicts. Maybe it's something about eye shape + placement? Trương Thế Vinh (he's from Da Nang which is on the central coast btw, so not formerly Khmer Empire territory) Kyle Le (I think?) Or I remember it wrongly, and that both groups are similar in northern and southern cline. Could be the eye shape indeed. Explain on the placement aspect please. Truong The Vinh comes from Da Nang and could be an assimilated Cham/have Cham origins. Da Nang used to be a Champa city before it was conquered by Viets. Or he can be heavily admixed with other ethnic minorities such as Co Tu, Xo Dang. A Viet on reedit rold me that Kyle looks heavily Khmer mixed like at least 1/4 Khmer. And he have seen many folks from the Southwest/Mekong Delta who look like him. Cung Le, Truong The Vinh, Kyle Le can pass easily in Thailand, Cambodia, Philippines, Indonesia. I notice many Viet+Khmer/Cham mixes can can easily pass as Filipino or Thai.
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 9, 2022 15:19:41 GMT
I think I've mentioned many times on Anthroscape that folks from Western GD and GX have a strong overlap with SE Asians, not only with mainland SE Asians but sometimes also with insular or maritime ones as well. At that time nobody believed me. But now you know. I don't think this was ever something people disagreed with you on? Maybe just on who can pass where and whether Western Guangdong and Guangxi are interchangeable (spoiler: they probably aren't)
Well, you were certainly among the ones that disagreed with me, from what I can remember. You keep claiming that Guangdong and Fujian are similar, and yet all the PCA charts that I've seen show Cantonese to be more southern-shifted than Fujianese by a significant margin. The Cantonese-speaking population in Western GD are certainly very similar in terms of appearance to their peers in Guangxi, no doubt about that. I'm less certain about the Min and Hakka speaking populations, but judging by my limited exposure to Min and Hakka speakers in Western GD and GX I also feel that they look noticeably more southern-shifted than their peers in Eastern Guangdong and Fujian. I recon that you don't really have a good grasp about how Cantonese people look like. You keep disagreeing with me, yet when asked to represent how typical Cantonese look like you'd post a bunch of random videos showing oversea Hokkiens. The old Cantonese man making congee is the only video where you were spot on about their phenotype. And I also feel that you're becoming increasingly Han ethnocentric. Why is it so hard for you to admit that Cantonese aren't Han in terms of their bloodlines but instead are heavily Daic-influenced?
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uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Jul 9, 2022 16:04:32 GMT
I think most of us have a good idea of what Cantonese people look like...ones I see are split into several types.
1. Some narrow faced sharp nosed Tai pheno, usually with low facial fat and thin skin, possibly Tibetoburman influenced. 2. This wide short face type with wide cheekbones, looks similar to Khmer Viets. 3. Some Hunan looking type with round face. 4. Some South Asian shifted pheno.
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uisashi
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Post by uisashi on Jul 9, 2022 16:13:34 GMT
More pics of Guangxi- vocational students from SW Guangxi, some small town. It has the range I described earlier. Compared to Guangdong, Guangxi appears to be more robust with bigger cheekbones. imgur.com/a/FKI8ges
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 9, 2022 16:58:57 GMT
I think most of us have a good idea of what Cantonese people look like...ones I see are split into several types. 1. Some narrow faced sharp nosed Tai pheno, usually with low facial fat and thin skin, possibly Tibetoburman influenced. 2. This wide short face type with wide cheekbones, looks similar to Khmer Viets. 3. Some Hunan looking type with round face. 4. Some South Asian shifted pheno. No you don't have a good grasp. The gracile Tai pheno is definitely influenced by local Tai-Kradai groups and not Tibeto-Burmans or Northern Sinitics. Wide cheekbones aren't that common among Cantonese (at least not more common than in other East Asian populations), and their cheekbones are usually set lower on their face. Hunan-like type with round face does exist, but mostly limited to northern or eastern Guangdong. And some South Asian shifted phenos exist as well, but mostly limited to western Guangdong and Guangxi. Overall I think your grasp on Northern Chinese phenos is definitely much better than on GD and GX phenos, and you should continue to contribute in areas that you're good at and not in areas that you don't really know.
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 9, 2022 17:03:51 GMT
More pics of Guangxi- vocational students from SW Guangxi, some small town. It has the range I described earlier. Compared to Guangdong, Guangxi appears to be more robust with bigger cheekbones. imgur.com/a/FKI8gesThe thing with group pictures related to school or work is that it's very hard to determine if all the students are from the same area, cause even vocational schools can have students from different parts of China, let alone high schools and universities. There're some students in the picture that look typically Guangxi, but others not so much. Overall I would say the student pictures look less typical than the convict pictures you posted earlier. This is the reason why I say sometimes cherry-picking is necessary to showcase the most typical phenos of a region, like what I did in the beginning of the thread with random GD/GX individual pictures and athlete pictures.
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mnopsc1b
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Laureate of Rice Agricultures
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 9, 2022 17:23:31 GMT
The thing is I feel that a lot of Northern Chinese posters on Tieba and Zhihu (and the ones here as well) have no respect to other East and SE Asian groups at all and have an inflated sense of superiority, all their so-called pheno analyses can be summed up using the following phrase:
Northern Chinese and Tibeto-Burmans are the most superior, the most good-looking, and the most narrow/gracile out of all East and SE Asians, and all others are ugly in their own ways.
Of course they didn't explicitly utter the above phrase, but this is the feeling that I always get when arguing with them.
To be fair, since the pictures of GX convicts have been shown, it would be preferred that the pictures of Shandong convicts to be posted as well, but I highly doubt that uisashi would ever do that.
I'll try to see if I can find anything about Shandong convicts, and if I've managed to find any I'll share them here.
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Post by okarinaofsteiner on Jul 9, 2022 17:54:00 GMT
I think most of us have a good idea of what Cantonese people look like...ones I see are split into several types. 1. Some narrow faced sharp nosed Tai pheno, usually with low facial fat and thin skin, possibly Tibetoburman influenced. 2. This wide short face type with wide cheekbones, looks similar to Khmer Viets. 3. Some Hunan looking type with round face. 4. Some South Asian shifted pheno. What is this Indian-like pheno you speak of? Edward Leung from CantoMando kind of fits the bill although I think he's more of your type 1 (the Andy Lau look) It's hard to find good examples of 1 and 4 among famous people Actor Brandon Soo Hoo Taylor Chan from Wong Fu Productions Kira Omans, Chinese adoptee University professor Suzie Pun Politician Gary Locke, former US ambassador to China Just watch MNOPS "no true Scotsman" this group of Taishanese Chinese Americans even though they're all very unmistakeably Daic-influenced looks wise and representative looking of the more Daic-shifted spectrum of Guangdong (Guangxi might be a different story)
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 9, 2022 17:55:36 GMT
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mnopsc1b
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Post by mnopsc1b on Jul 9, 2022 17:59:36 GMT
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